Fiduciary responsibilty of a Director to Board

Started by RalphR1 • 18 replies • 1850 views

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RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Here I go again! I was elected to the Board in Sept., 2011. For a frame of reference, I moved here in June, 2010. I was elected along with another Director who has been here for eight years. He had thought of running several times in the past and always decided not to. He had served five years on another Board in all capacities including President. I won the election over two other long term residents(one of which was the "running mate" of the other newly elected person. We shared a lot of the same thoughts, opinions and ideas as well as saw the need for change. Only recently did he shy away from supporting me on a very crucial issue only to put it on "hold" temporarily. Where this is going is: I was assigned to several responsibilites in the community as was all Directors by the newly elected Officers of the Board. One of my areas was "Security". We have been having ongoing problems with false alarms and security guard patrols. It took me over 2 months to correct the "alarm" issues and the Board claimed it wasn't a problem in the past. Recently I have been working on correcting the "guard" problems. I called for a meeting with the 2 security managers handling our account. I set up the meeting at our office and only one manager arrived. He stated that he had received a call the day before from our President(who was and has been in Florida for over 1 1/2 months) telling him not to do anything nor make any changes to procedures if I direct him to do so. The President was told by our office manager that I had set up the meeting. Needless to say I was shocked and disarmed hearing this from the Security Manager. When the President returned to the Board meeting I told him and informed the Board that he went over my head by calling the Security company and in affect telling them not to pay any attention to me. If the President had any issues he could have called me from Florida and not the Security Company. I told him that he had no right to go over my head and his response was that he had all the right in the world to go over my head because he was the one who signed the contract. I had to inform him that we were out of contract(it expired and we were on a 30 day notice by either party). This was one of several major issues on this date and I left the Board meeting and strongly felt that I had to inform some residents of the Board's behavior. Yesterday I was informed that our attorneys will attend the next Board meeting to inform me of my fiduciary responsibility to maintain confidentiality to the Board. I told the President that my fiduciary responsibility was to the membership. He told me that if I refuse to remain silent on the behavior of the Board that I would be expelled from the Board. I told him that our Blue Book's Bylaws does not allow that; the only way a Director can be removed is by a "recall vote" of 2/3 of the membership. He told me that it doesn't make any difference what the Blue Book says. The other newly elected Director threatened to " resign " because he strong agreed with me on these and other issues and behavior of the other 5 Board members, the Administrator and office personnel. I apologize for this lengthy dialogue however in past postings I did not go into such great detail regarding those issues which are very lengthy and complex; subsequently receiving several negative responses to me and my attitued and its all fair if "meant well". Finally, my questions are; if I never signed any agreement or contract as far as conduct and fiduciary responsibility to the Board; I never received any handbook or instructions on being a Board member; do I have a fiduciary responsibilty to maintain cofidentiality on the Board's behavior?; the other question is can the Board go outside the Bylaws to get "rid" of me? Thank anyone and everyone who replies to this

MichaelG18 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Short answer is: Yes (you have a fiduciary responsibility) and No (they cannot go around the governing documents in terms of replacing you).

The practical answer is longer.
To the second - they cannot legally remove you, however there are a lot of things they can do to make your life miserable. If you don't have enough support among the other directors then you will be banging your head against the wall and as a volunteer position, you have to ask yourself "is it worth it?". If you DO have enough support, document every action taken that violates one of your rules set forth in state law, AIC, CC&Rs, or Bylaws. You may have to use the legal means set forth in your governing document to remove the poorly behaving directors/officers. It is doable, but be aware that you may also have to spend money and take legal action against them as well, as they may just choose to ignore the removal vote, forcing you to more drastic measures.

To the first question: You signed up to be on the board of directors, and one of your responsibilities is to speak as one voice in the community. That doesn't mean you have to agree to everything that is done, but it does mean you have to use the process, register your opposition vote and have your position recorded, etc. but when ultimately you are outnumberd on a decision, you then have the responsibility to support the decisions of the board in public. That includes not undermining the board in public discussion, etc. This stops obviously at illegal actions taken by the board. You are not required to "go along silently" when they are breaking the law. However even so, you will need to decide, depending on the seriousness of the issue, how "militant" to get about your response. Following the proper channels and remaining resolute in your convictions doesn't have to mean public lynching, for instance ;)

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

If I read your post correctly, the President assigned duties to board members. This is not how it is supposed to work. The board appoints the President and other officers. The officers serve the board and normally have no authority to assign board members to perform specific duties.

Your fiduciary responsibilities are established by law and public policy. The rest of the board has no power to alter that, so handbooks and instructions are irrelevant. You correctly state that your duty is to the owners, not to the other board members. You have no duty to keep board matters confidential except as required by law. You serve at the pleasure of the owners, not the rest of the board.

If and when the board's attorney attends a meeting and begins lecturing you, I would suggest that you immediately stop him, inform him that he is not your attorney, that you have your own attorney to advise you, and that you are not interested in hearing his opinions. Then make no futher responses to him even if he asks you a direct question.

Whether the rest of the board can remove you in violation of the bylaws is essentially a matter of money. Who is willing to spend the most to fight this issue through the courts? If the board chooses to remove you, are you prepared to fight it out with them in court? If your bylaws require a 2/3 member vote then you should eventually triumph.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

In California and in other states, there is a difference between executive/closed meetings and regular board meetings.

What happens at regular board meetings which are open to all membership are not confidential.

Things like contract negotiations are confidential, but that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

Meeting minutes should reflect some detail, but not too much. What is important is how people vote because it could set up legal liability.

If the board has a newsletter or if the community has a newsletter, opposing opinions are supposed to have equal access to it (at least in California).

If you are threatened by the president, get whatever is said in writing. Either by verifying your understanding in a followup email or by asking that it be noted in the minutes.

In California there are a limited number of things that are to be dealt with in executive/closed meetings and thus there are only a limited number of things that can be considered confidential.

If a contract has ended, the CC&R usually dictate how and when the members should be informed.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Ralph,

Let me try and summarize what you posted.

You were elected to office and assigned the responsibility of being the liaison between the Board and security issues. You called a meeting with the security staff to try and address an issue. The President of the Association contacted the security staff and instructed them not to implement any changes that came out of that meeting. In a board meeting (not clear if this was an open meeting or the closed meeting you discussed in in another thread, vs. being a private meeting between the two of you. At this meeting there was conflict and words exchanged between you and the President over the issue. Because of this exchange and either the actual or potential release of information from that meeting (posting isn't clear if info was actually released outside the board or not), the Board has taken steps to make sure you are aware of certain responsibilities as a Director. They also threatened to remove you from office.

Is this basically correct?

From what you posted I agree with the following:

1) The President should have contacted you directly.

However, based on these actions the President was obviously concerned that you might overstep your authority and implement new procedures without getting board approval to do so. This concern may have been based on actual past behavior on your part, perception and personality conflict on his part, the failure to properly explain the limits of your positional authority, or something else we are unaware of. Irregardless, the President should have contacted you directly.

Additionally, I believe that it would have been proper for you to notify the board that you were having this meeting. Had this been done, the President would have had the opportunity to voice any concerns. Unfortunately, the President found out from a third party. This probably fueled his perception that you might overstep your authority.

2) Expecting that your governing documents do not allow the board to remove an elected director, they President acted improperly when threatening your seat on the Board.

3) There is confusion over responsibilities and obligations.

As a Director, you are one of x, elected to apply the powers of the Association and meet the Associations obligations. As a Director, you are one vote. The Board as a whole, through majority vote, decides how to apply the powers and how to meet the Associations obligations. The Board as a whole makes these decisions not a single Director.

As a Director you have access to certain information that is not available to the general membership. Because of this access, you have a legal (based on various privacy laws) responsibility to keep certain things confidential. You also have a fiduciary duty to use the resources of the Association properly and prudently. You exercise this fiduciary duty through your vote when the board makes a decision.

As an Officer or through positional appointment, you have specific additional responsibilities that should be defined through State laws, governing documents and/or resolutions (decisions) of the Board. Typically, along with these responsibilities limited authority is granted to make certain decisions. This authority is usually granted through the governing documents or Board resolutions. If those documents are silent, then this position has zero authority to change anything without first seeking and receiving permission to do so from the Board.

As to your specific question "do I have a fiduciary responsibilty to maintain cofidentiality on the Board's behavior?, it depends if the behavior was done in an open meeting or a closed meeting or not in a meeting at all. Directors, and any invited guests in attendance, do have a responsibility to keep the contents of a closed meeting confidential. This responsibility, in my opinion, can only be waived by a court of law or by permission of the Board. If this was in an open meeting, then you would certainly be no need of confidentiality as anyone could have attended the meeting. With all that said, lets move on to the ETHICAL question of should the information be released? This would depend on the real reasons behind wanting to release the information. The goal that may be achieved by releasing the info. The pros and cons would need to be weighed (as it will likely cause a division within the membership) and weighing them must be done with an open mind.

As a side note, I suspect that the attorney is showing up at the next meeting because the Board wants to make sure that you know your responsibilities and the scope of your fiduciary duty. They may want to document that you received this hand book (if it's handed out at the meeting). I also suspect that they are concerned over any potential litigation and want to protect themselves.

Your other question is "Can the Board go outside the Bylaws to get "rid" of me?" The answer is yes and no. Can they remove you from the Board - it would depend on the language of the laws and governing documents. I don't have access to all of that, so I can not provided an informed decision. Irregardless of physically removing you from the board, they can remove you from any appointed positions (Officer positions, committee liaisons, etc.). The Board can refuse your willingness to volunteer to look into issues or take care of things. Basically you will be pigeonholed. If this happens you will still be a director. You will still have a single vote in any board decision. As I said in the previous thread, you will likely become very frustrated in your term of service.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/11/2012 6:42 PM
Ralph,

Let me try and summarize what you posted.

You were elected to office and assigned the responsibility of being the liaison between the Board and security issues. You called a meeting with the security staff to try and address an issue. The President of the Association contacted the security staff and instructed them not to implement any changes that came out of that meeting. In a board meeting (not clear if this was an open meeting or the closed meeting you discussed in in another thread, vs. being a private meeting between the two of you. At this meeting there was conflict and words exchanged between you and the President over the issue. Because of this exchange and either the actual or potential release of information from that meeting (posting isn't clear if info was actually released outside the board or not), the Board has taken steps to make sure you are aware of certain responsibilities as a Director. They also threatened to remove you from office.

Is this basically correct?

From what you posted I agree with the following:

1) The President should have contacted you directly.

However, based on these actions the President was obviously concerned that you might overstep your authority and implement new procedures without getting board approval to do so. This concern may have been based on actual past behavior on your part, perception and personality conflict on his part, the failure to properly explain the limits of your positional authority, or something else we are unaware of. Irregardless, the President should have contacted you directly.

Additionally, I believe that it would have been proper for you to notify the board that you were having this meeting. Had this been done, the President would have had the opportunity to voice any concerns. Unfortunately, the President found out from a third party. This probably fueled his perception that you might overstep your authority.

2) Expecting that your governing documents do not allow the board to remove an elected director, they President acted improperly when threatening your seat on the Board.

3) There is confusion over responsibilities and obligations.

As a Director, you are one of x, elected to apply the powers of the Association and meet the Associations obligations. As a Director, you are one vote. The Board as a whole, through majority vote, decides how to apply the powers and how to meet the Associations obligations. The Board as a whole makes these decisions not a single Director.

As a Director you have access to certain information that is not available to the general membership. Because of this access, you have a legal (based on various privacy laws) responsibility to keep certain things confidential. You also have a fiduciary duty to use the resources of the Association properly and prudently. You exercise this fiduciary duty through your vote when the board makes a decision.

As an Officer or through positional appointment, you have specific additional responsibilities that should be defined through State laws, governing documents and/or resolutions (decisions) of the Board. Typically, along with these responsibilities limited authority is granted to make certain decisions. This authority is usually granted through the governing documents or Board resolutions. If those documents are silent, then this position has zero authority to change anything without first seeking and receiving permission to do so from the Board.

As to your specific question "do I have a fiduciary responsibilty to maintain cofidentiality on the Board's behavior?, it depends if the behavior was done in an open meeting or a closed meeting or not in a meeting at all. Directors, and any invited guests in attendance, do have a responsibility to keep the contents of a closed meeting confidential. This responsibility, in my opinion, can only be waived by a court of law or by permission of the Board. If this was in an open meeting, then you would certainly be no need of confidentiality as anyone could have attended the meeting. With all that said, lets move on to the ETHICAL question of should the information be released? This would depend on the real reasons behind wanting to release the information. The goal that may be achieved by releasing the info. The pros and cons would need to be weighed (as it will likely cause a division within the membership) and weighing them must be done with an open mind.

As a side note, I suspect that the attorney is showing up at the next meeting because the Board wants to make sure that you know your responsibilities and the scope of your fiduciary duty. They may want to document that you received this hand book (if it's handed out at the meeting). I also suspect that they are concerned over any potential litigation and want to protect themselves.

Your other question is "Can the Board go outside the Bylaws to get "rid" of me?" The answer is yes and no. Can they remove you from the Board - it would depend on the language of the laws and governing documents. I don't have access to all of that, so I can not provided an informed decision. Irregardless of physically removing you from the board, they can remove you from any appointed positions (Officer positions, committee liaisons, etc.). The Board can refuse your willingness to volunteer to look into issues or take care of things. Basically you will be pigeonholed. If this happens you will still be a director. You will still have a single vote in any board decision. As I said in the previous thread, you will likely become very frustrated in your term of service.

Tim: Sounds like you have a pretty clear grasp of the situation Ralph now has a problem with.
The President learned Ralph had arranged this meeting with the security staff from the managemnt staff. Rather than speak with Ralph whom he more than likely felt would not abide by his wishes he as "President" made the decision Ralph would not be allowed to make any changes to the security programs without first going through the President. Seems to indicate clearly the President has little regard for Ralph's motives and decisions. Can you blame them? That would seem right to me because Ralph is not a member of the Board but rather someone who seeks to soil their every move and decision. Last time I checked the President has such authority to do what was done rather than having a single Board member change security procedures in the way THEY feel necessary. Ralph sees this as going over his head. Again, he is unaware of his role or that of the Board President and the structure of authority on the Board. Ralph would like to believe HE runs the show.

Then in order to punish the actions of the President Ralph decides to "share" what took place in the worst possible light with the property owners. Rather childish behavior at best.

As to your question of confidentiality well as Ralph has stated he hasn't gotten around to looking at the state laws. Well tough to do your job and have an understanding of proper procedure when you haven't bothered to take the time to read the applicable laws.

There is no open meeting rule in NY. Board's are not required to hold open meetings. Sounds like they do not in Ralph's case. Only with an invitation from the Board can a property owner attend the regualr Board meeting. So sounds like what Ralph decided to share was not discussed in open session therefore it was not HIS place to discuss this with those outside the Board. IMO.

You HAVE to know by now what motivates Ralph. His agenda is to question, undermine, and resist every decision and judgement made by the Board. The compensation of the staff, the amount of hours they work, the length of their lunch hours, these are vital areas of concern for Ralph, not the management of a 700 unit property. And lets not forget the Board had the gaul to do road repairs without Ralph and the other uninformed owners having a say. Even though under the law (which Ralph hasn't gotten around to reading or comprehending) maintanance is different from capital imrovements. But not understadning this Ralph finds fault as always. So Ralph gives himself the right to spread his version of right and wrong though he has little true understanding of either.

I am sure the attorney being asked to attend the next meeting is for the protection of the Board in dealing with Ralph. Will their explanation to Ralph of HIS role and that of the other Board members change Ralph's behavior??? Of course not. Ralph is way past that.

My guess you hitr it on the head. Ralph will be isolated and shut off from any real role on the Board and simply be left to howl at the moon and foam at the mouth about whjat he percieves are the wrongdoings of this Board.

Funny my guess with 700 units I would think this Board would have more pressing things to deal with rather then now having to pay their attorney to explain to Ralph how this system is supposed to work and that HE is not in the position to run the show because he has determined
that is HIS God given right.

With time people show you who and what they are. In a short period of time Ralph has shown clearly what his agenda and mindset are all about. I for one have no use for such people.

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Thanks MichaelG. This Board determines what will and what won't be put into the minutes. It adheres to Robert's Rules of Order as it sees fit. I tried to give full details in my post. I'm sorry that it wasn't any clearer or too vague.

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Thanks LarryB. I think you got a good picture of my dilema. I absolutely agree with you!

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Thanks JM10. This Board decides what goes into the minutes and what does not. The membership is never included nor informed about opposing views/they only can view the minutes of Board meetings at two central locations in recreation blgs, and not all discussions are included(highly censored).

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Thanks TimB4. I tried to relate what actually transpired relative to the Security matter. There was absolutely nothing that I would have done at "my" meeting with Security other than to try to correct a ongoing problem. The President was in Florida when he called them( he had been in Florida for 2 months). If he had any issues whatsoever he should have contacted me and/or went through our office manager to relay any message to me. Tim, I truly appreciate this site and its purpose, however what I don't understand is that some people who respond don't presume that the writer is right, correct, truthful, factual and/or unbiased. I go under the presumption that the person posting his question needs help and/or information; I presume that he is being truthful and accurate and I would address my reply accordingly. If he is incorrect, untruthful and/or biased then that is his problem but I cannot ascertain that by reading his post.

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

JonD1, here you go again. I have no use for nor any respect for you, period!! My reply to you actually is what I included in my reply to Tim B4 above. It states exactly the approach that you do not take. I was actually referring to you without mentioning your name because I am a better person than you. Please, do me a favor and do not reply to me any further. I can't control you and your replies but I will not let you have the final word(who the heck are you?????)

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RalphR1 on 04/12/2012 5:23 AM
JonD1, here you go again. I have no use for nor any respect for you, period!! My reply to you actually is what I included in my reply to Tim B4 above. It states exactly the approach that you do not take. I was actually referring to you without mentioning your name because I am a better person than you. Please, do me a favor and do not reply to me any further. I can't control you and your replies but I will not let you have the final word(who the heck are you?????)

Ralph: Once again you don't get to tell folks what they can or cannot do.
As for you, your actions speak louder than your words.

You are one single member of this Board NOT the self appointed zealot that plans to right all wrongs that you perceive.

And expecting the members here on this site to presume all posters are telling a 100% accurate version of the truth and reality shows clearly you have little if any understanding of human behavior.

Your behavior seems petty, childish, and disruptive with the process of managing your property. You did not seek a position on this Boared to work with the others members but have excluded yourself from that opportunity. Seems clear they have gotten the message quite clearly.

And please stop with the silly nonsense of not mentioning my name as in your mind that proves you are the better person. Are you for real?

That's how you prove your point? Every property has at least one. The know it all, 7 month Board member who can find all the faults just has no understanding of what serving on the Board is all about. In time they throw up their hands and walk away blaming everyone else but themselves.

Even IF you had any valid points in time they will not be heard because you as a source have been discredited.

What's the next issue Ralph? Got to be something new you can moan about.

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

JonD1, keep it up you ignoramous. I asked you to stop your ranting and raving but no, not "YOU"-you self-appointed, self-proclaimed "know-it-all" or should I call you God. You don't even get the message. JonD1 you wouldn't know "reality" if it slapped you upside your artificial two faces. The next issue might just be all about you.........

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Ralph you seem to have issues with control and anger.

When people don't agree with you seems you get personal and nasty.

Is this how you "work" with those on your Board? And you really don't get why they called the special meeting to set you straight? And you can't figure out why the attorney is coming to explain things to you?

Not sure if I can sleep tonight after reading that verbal assault you laid on me. Did it take you all that long to put that together? And that makes you feel better? Really quite sad............

Fiduciary duty and confidentiality are two different things Ralph but maybe the lawyer can write that down for you so you might remember.

You throw words and legal terms around as if you understand them when you do not.

You read what you want to read, you see what you need to see and you understand actually little.

Let us know how things go for you. I have a guess you are in for a rough ride.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Ralph

I can see where you would have problems with other BOD Members even when you are right.

I think you might win battles but lose wars and never understand why you lost.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Well, Ralph, it does sound as if the Board wants the attorneys to "educate" you at homeowners' expense.

But because you & the board will meet with the attorneys, take it as an opportunity to ask them questions about behavior of the board that you think is illegal. You might, for example, ask them what should be in the minutes. When you say that the board heavily "censors" the minutes, are you correct? Minutes should only contain actions by the board not every exchange/discussion among directors. Ask the attorneys' advice about the wisdom of the board inviting H/O's to regular meetings. Maybe the attorneys will think it's a good idea.

Since the board can & does close off all regular board meetings to Members, I don't see how you can accomplish much of anything. They cannot see or hear the Board in action. Homeowner pressure is an important way to change a Board's behavior. I do not see where any support for your positions will come from.

Btw, in our HOA no director would have the authority to direct any vendors to change their procedures. A director would make a written report and recommendations to the board.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RalphR1 on 04/12/2012 5:12 AM
however what I don't understand is that some people who respond don't presume that the writer is right, correct, truthful, factual and/or unbiased. I go under the presumption that the person posting his question needs help and/or information; I presume that he is being truthful and accurate and I would address my reply accordingly.

Ralph,

From what I've seen on this site, often the initial posts are incomplete because the poster (naturally so) expects that what is common knowledge to them is common knowledge to everyone else. Some posters will phrase a question to receive confirmation that what they want to do is agreed with (I'm sure we have all met people like that). Some posters are going on what they were told without verifying the actual specifics. Some posters haven't done the research or min-interpreted a passage of the governing documents. Some posters are unaware of all the various laws (corporate, HOA/COA, etc.) that might be applicable. Some are just too close to the situation and emotions are blurring what is actually happening.

As I've stated in the past, we can offer advice and opinions based on what is posted, our personal experiences, any research that is done and, hopefully, some common sense. If any of the above changes, the advice and opinions may change. Some people, like Doctors and Lawyers, are trained to ask specific questions in order to receive as much information as possible - as this typically leads to better advice.

Personally, I believe that the hardest problem for anyone is to remove emotions from the issue. This is especially true if they perceive a wrong being done to them, as we are all human and go into a fight or flight mode when challenged. However, until the poster can remove emotions from the issue and see things from all perspectives, nothing tends to get resolved.

I found this site great because the individuals are not involved with the issue. They are doing the best they can with the information that was offered to provide an opinion or advice on how they believe is the best way to handle an issue. When this advice doesn't coincide with the original posters view of the issue, the advice typically is discounted. This doesn't make the advice offered wrong, the advice was just ignored. Whenever this happens, I always remember something from my military days:

If someone thinks your being an idiot, that person has a problem. If the whole room thinks your being an idiot, there might be something to it.

I would encourage posters to read all the advice as someone may have a unique perspective into the issue no one thought of. When there are disagreements on this site, the best thing a poster can do is read all the opinions and go with what appears to be the majority as "there might be something to it" and it could be the best advice being offered. Then be gracious for all the advice and opinions offered, as all were offered in an attempt to help and this is why the original poster started the thread.

Ralph,

I've said this before, I don't know if the issues are real, perceived or a combination of both. This is because I am only reading about the issues from one perspective and not from the other perspective. However, based on what is being offered from your perspective, it's clear that feathers have been ruffled. Since I'm not directly involved in your Association, I don't know if it's all you, all them or a combination of both. Honestly it's irrelevant to the advice I have to offer. Based on what has been posted, if amends are not made, it's likely that very little will change and, because you seem to care about addressing issues to make them better, you will become very very frustrated during your term of service on the board.

Therefore, my advice - irregardless if your right or wrong, attend the next meeting with some humility and apologize for anything you have done that may have been perceived as inappropriate. Explain that your intent is to address various issues and make the community better. That you understand that this can not be done by any one person and it's only when everyone on the Board works together that things truly improve. Maybe the board will reciprocate with an apology, maybe not. At the very least, you will know that you've taken best road to address the issues.

RalphR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 52

Posted:

JonD1, you're one really great gentleman and quite the fortune teller as well. You win! You win! I surrender to you. No more replies from me................

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Ralph:

One post you call me vulgar names and now you lay on the sweet talk. You operate at such a high level tough for me to follow.

Or another possibility you just don't know how to respond when others see you for what you are. First you try intimidation and nastiness and when that doesn't work you are out of cards to play.

Seems to me you are a man of limited abilities.

Yes, on occasion some posters provide an honest and complete accounting of their situation yours was not one of those occasions. You were looking for support, conformation and suggestions in implementing YOUR single-minded agenda.

No doubt your behavior, as seen here through your posts. can be and was rude, vulgar, demeaning, and insulting. And in life you get what you give.

It is clear to me your limitations in dealing with others in the name of accomplishing what you believe is right. You are what they refer to as a "right" fighter willing to destroy relationships, opportunities, and possibilities in the name of proving YOUR point.

But all of this IMO is lost on you. You are limited to just one pattern of behavior. You are capable of no more.

And on this occasion I happen to agree with Tim and his advice. Knowing full well you will never take it. The best advice is worthless when not put to use.

I feel sorry for those on your property you have insulted, harassed, and questioned. I am sure you have made the normally difficult job of managing the 700 units on your property even more difficult. Maybe in your mind that is some sort of accomplishment IMO nothing positive or to be proud of.

And speaking for myself alone, I understand all to well who and what you are.

But I won't resort to name calling and insults rather I will let your own words speak for themselves.

As Dr. Phil would say, "how's it working for you?" But you can't even begin to see that...

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