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KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Our non-profit HOA has opened their golf course to the public and selling passes. They are depositing the money into the general HOA fund. Is this legal?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Which part?
Opening the course to the public, depositing the funds into the operating account or both?

Typically, the Board has full authority over any common area. Therefore, it's likely that they can open the course to the public. I suspect it's to help pay expenses and keep assessments low.

Typically an association initially places all of the money into the operating funds.

Obviously, the Association will have to pay taxes on any money not raised through assessments as only assessments are usually exempt from taxes.

As a nonprofit, they also need to watch how much non-assessment they raise as it could have other tax implications. Per the 2011 1120-H tax form instructions at least 60% of the gross income must be from assessments or the Association will lose the right to file 1120-H and must use form 1120 which may increase the Associations tax bill.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Katie

Do a search on

Summerlin, sun city, irs

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
My thoughts is that will open the Association up to liability if someone gets hurt on the course.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 04/09/2012 6:14 AM
My thoughts is that will open the Association up to liability if someone gets hurt on the course.

Booonie

There are many HOA's that own golf courses so liability can easily be covered. How I do not know, but many do so.

The Summerlin issue was the IRS ruled that the revenue they were making on the golf course (and few other things like retail rental) was taxable income. They got hit with a $2M tax bill. In the long run I believe the IRS won.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/09/2012 4:09 AM
Our non-profit HOA has opened their golf course to the public and selling passes. They are depositing the money into the general HOA fund. Is this legal?

The money earned from selling golf course passes to the public is non-exempt function income and is taxable. Furthermore, if that income exceeds 40% of the association's annual budget the association will no longer qualify to file Form 1120-H and must file Form 1120 instead, and ALL incomes (including association dues) becomes taxable. Depending on the circumstances, this could actually result in a more favorable tax situation. However, the 1120 corporate tax form is far more complicated and may require the assistance of a CPA to file.
KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
They are selling passes to the public as well as having tournaments. They are then handing the money over to the HOA who is depositing it into their one account. The financial paper they hand out shows the deposit as "golf course."

I'm concerned, because as a public business now, they should be paying taxes and reporting this and they're not. I'm concerned about the trouble this could cause. And I would think they'd need a tax or sales permit also.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/09/2012 6:09 PM

I'm concerned, because as a public business now, they should be paying taxes and reporting this and they're not. I'm concerned about the trouble this could cause. And I would think they'd need a tax or sales permit also.

I understand your concerns.

Have you expressed these concerns to your Board?
If you have, what was their response?

If the selling of passes started last year, you can simply ask to review the Associations income tax paperwork (which is your right as a member). If the selling didn't start until this year, you will need to wait until the 2012 taxes are filed.

KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
I believe they've actually been doing it for years, which is why I'm concerned. I know there's not a reserve in savings or anything, as they're always worried they won't have money by the end of the year. But if they're selling to the public and are a non-profit corporation, this portion is now a business. In Texas for a business, you're supposed to have a sales/use tax permit and to pay taxes on it. Maybe HOAs are different? I don't see how though. I'm wondering if just this alone could be enough to cause problems.

I've seen their 990 forms that they've filed and there's not anything separate about the golf course funds. Just concerned about them doing things inappropriately.

KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Also our own bylaws and deed restrictions state there can't be any businesses run here.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/09/2012 6:52 PM

I've seen their 990 forms that they've filed and there's not anything separate about the golf course funds. Just concerned about them doing things inappropriately.

IRS form 990 is for tax exempt nonprofit corporations (aka charities and charitable organizations). Is this the form you saw?

Nonprofit corporations who are not considered 501(c)3 corporations, are to file form 1120 or the appropriate subset of 1120 (a,b,c, etc).

If your Association is filing IRS form 990 for federal taxes and not authorized to do so, I would strongly recommend selling your home and moving before the IRS finds out.

I suspect that your Association would be required to file form 1120 and not 1120-H because of the golf course. However, I am certainly no tax expert.

If your concerned about having the proper State required paperwork and the board isn't giving satisfactory answers, you will need to contact the State.

Question, is your association still under declarant (builder) control or has the Association been turned completely over to the membership?

As for the deed restrictions, since a golf course was in the plans for the area, I suspect that those restrictions are for the residential properties and not the common areas.

Tim
KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/09/2012 7:46 PM
Posted By KatieL on 04/09/2012 6:52 PM

I've seen their 990 forms that they've filed and there's not anything separate about the golf course funds. Just concerned about them doing things inappropriately.


IRS form 990 is for tax exempt nonprofit corporations (aka charities and charitable organizations). Is this the form you saw?

Nonprofit corporations who are not considered 501(c)3 corporations, are to file form 1120 or the appropriate subset of 1120 (a,b,c, etc).

If your Association is filing IRS form 990 for federal taxes and not authorized to do so, I would strongly recommend selling your home and moving before the IRS finds out.

I suspect that your Association would be required to file form 1120 and not 1120-H because of the golf course. However, I am certainly no tax expert.

If your concerned about having the proper State required paperwork and the board isn't giving satisfactory answers, you will need to contact the State.

Question, is your association still under declarant (builder) control or has the Association been turned completely over to the membership?

As for the deed restrictions, since a golf course was in the plans for the area, I suspect that those restrictions are for the residential properties and not the common areas.

Tim

Thank you Tim, for giving me some information to research and things to look at. Yes, I've seen 990s, but the last one was filed in 2008. My understanding is that they are a non-profit corporation, but does this mean they're filing the wrong returns? They may be filing the 1120, but I'll have to request them, I guess, to know for sure.

We are not under builder control, we were formed back in the 1960s and was turned over. There has always been questions about how things have been going, but we have some new laws now that protect us and we're trying to find out and make sure they get on board with being legal. Would the IRS give this information regarding the tax filings or is this considered confidential and I'd have to request the forms from the board itself?

Thank you again, Tim.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Unless your on the Board, I suspect that the IRS would not release the information.

You need to send your request to the Board. This is because your right to review the Association records (which would include the tax forms) is between the member and the Association. Therefore, the information must be provided by the Association, not another entity.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/09/2012 6:09 PM

I'm concerned, because as a public business now, they should be paying taxes and reporting this and they're not. I'm concerned about the trouble this could cause. And I would think they'd need a tax or sales permit also.

This varies greatly from state to state, but sales tax is normally levied on the sale of goods. The sale of a service -- use of a golf course, in this case -- may or may not be taxed. If they are not required to collect or pay a tax on the golf course admissions then they probably do not need a permit.

KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thank you. I'm going to draft a letter and request their tax information. This concerns me a great deal. In Texas, taxes also have to be paid on tangible services. Also, can HOAs be registered as 501(3)(c)? I thought that was for charities, but am a little confused about that, since it's not a charitable organization. I know they have tax exempt status regarding making purchases for the association, but I wouldn't think if they sell to the public, that would exempt them from taxes on those sales.

You've given me a lot to think about and to research on and I appreciate it. I will also be drafting a letter to the State Comptroller and ask them specifics regarding this. I'll also request their tax filings, as mentioned above, as with the new laws passed in Texas, if they refuse they can be fined.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Katie, Tim,

You need to be aware that IRS Form 990 is not strictly for 501(c)(3) charitable organizations.

The IRS advises taxpayers not to confuse non-profit organizations with tax-exempt status. An organization can be non-profit, but not be tax-exempt.

There are several organizations that can apply for tax-exempt status by the IRS other than 501(c)(3) charitable organizations. For example:

501(c)(4) - Civic Leagues and Social Welfare Organizations
501(c)(5) - Labor, Agricultural and Horticultural Organizations
501(c)(6) - Business Leagues
501(c)(7) - Social and Recreational Clubs
etc.

are all tax-exempt and will (normally) be required to file Form 990.

An organization must apply to the IRS under the proper 501(x)(x) section by filing either Form 1023 or Form 1024 to be treated as a tax-exempt organization and to be eligible to file Form 990. It should be noted that each type of organization must meet certain requirements with regard to the purpose for which it is organized and the sources of its income and the nature of expenditures. For example, an organization that raises funds for political purposes would not be eligible. The organization will receive a determination letter from the IRS noting approval or denial of the application.

It is possible that your golf club is organized under 501(c)(7). However, to be tax-exempt it must raise funds primarily from its members. According to IRS Publication 557, a 501(c)(7) organization that is open to the public can be denied tax-exempt status. A 501(c)(7) organization can also lose its tax-exempt status if more than 35% of its gross receipts come from sources other than its membership.

A Homeowners Association can apply for tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(4) or can elect to file with preferential tax treatment as a corporation by filing Form 1120-H under Section 528. Applying for 501(c)(4) tax-exempt status requires an advance determination and continues from year-to-year, whereas the election to file Form 1120-H or Form 1120 can be made each year, does not require advance determination, and the HOA can file whichever form results in the more favorable tax treatment for its particular circumstances that year.

You can learn more details by downloading a copy of Publication 557 from the IRS website.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Katie

Did you search Summerlin, sun city, irs

It is about income and HOA received from a golf course.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=summerlin%2C%20sun%20city%2C%20irs&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lvrj.com%2Fbusiness%2Fbanked-cash-may-create-tax-trouble-for-summerlin-hoa-group-137844563.html&ei=4DKET-CqBMPu2gWx-5jpCA&usg=AFQjCNHleC2TOOS9ekzZ_mkkBMh-9_wHyw

Not sure the above link will work.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
KATIE

I tested it. Copy the link and paste it in your web browser address. It works.

Hope this works
KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
John, yes I did look it up and read about it. The similarities are only that our golf course is selling to the public, but I don't believe they have any extra money 'stashed' away in a reserve. So I'm not sure if they could still be in trouble for what they're doing. I wasn't quite clear if they were in trouble with the IRS for having the extra money set aside or selling to the public or both.

I know our HOA is registered as a 501(3)(c) non profit corporation and does have a tax exemption. They are not registered under anything else.

I'm researching all I can every chance I get, but it's in bits and pieces. I appreciate all the help very much everyone!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/10/2012 6:22 PM

I know our HOA is registered as a 501(3)(c) non profit corporation and does have a tax exemption. They are not registered under anything else.

WOW

I'd love to know how they were able to qualify for that.
KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Sorry - I might be mistaken; I'm searching the state information to try to find out exactly what they are!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/10/2012 8:01 PM
Sorry - I might be mistaken; I'm searching the state information to try to find out exactly what they are!

I hope for their sake you are mistaken about the 501(c)(3) thing.

As I posted earlier, if they are filing a Form 990 Informational Return, they could be any one of several other 501(x)(x) organizations. My guess would be either 501(c)(4) or 501(c)(7). Either way, there would be restrictions they would have to adhere to in order to maintain their tax-exempt status.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/10/2012 6:22 PM

I know our HOA is registered as a 501(3)(c) non profit corporation and does have a tax exemption. They are not registered under anything else.

I find this hard to believe. There are many non-profit corporations. Only a few non-profit corporations have 501(C)(3) status as a charity. I have never heard of an HOA having this status. To achieve IRS approval there must be some public benefit derived from the income, such as assistance with the necessities of life or the operation of a school, museum or historic preservation. An HOA, by its very nature, is run for the exclusive benefit of its homeowners and not the benefit of the public.

Are you just assuming that because your HOA is a non-profit corporation that it also has 501(C)(3) charitable status?

KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Well, I could've sworn I'd seen somewhere where they are registered as a 501(c)(3) -- I was talking to another homeowner today and asked him, as he knows a lot about what's going on here that isn't right. He said they were registered, indeed, as a 501(c)(3). I'm still trying to find verification, though.

I will let you know what I find!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieL on 04/11/2012 4:08 PM
Well, I could've sworn I'd seen somewhere where they are registered as a 501(c)(3) -- I was talking to another homeowner today and asked him, as he knows a lot about what's going on here that isn't right. He said they were registered, indeed, as a 501(c)(3). I'm still trying to find verification, though.

I will let you know what I find!

I wouldn't necessarily believe what another homeowner tells you. He may very well be guessing. Ask him how he knows. Did he see the IRS determination letter himself?

First-hand, independently verifiable information is always more reliable than information obtained second- and third-hand.
KatieL (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thank you Bruce, you're right and I understand. That's why I'm trying to find documentation to back information up. I want proof of what they're doing is either right or wrong and they're not the easiest people to approach. I'm looking for proof before going to them about anything.

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