attn: federally licensed amateur radio operators

Started by RobertC14 • 8 replies • 4783 views

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RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

living in/under HOA/CCR/Deed Restricted properties

the fcc is soliciting input on how these restrictions impact or impede licensed amateur radio communications and emergency activities.

here are the links to Amateur Radio Relay League pages on this issue.

FCC Seeks Public Comments on Emergency Communications by Amateur Radio and Impediments to Amateur Radio Communications
http://www.arrl.org/news/view/fcc-seeks-public-comments-on-emergency-communications-by-amateur-radio-and-impediments-to-amateur-ra

Overview of FCC Land Use Restriction Study
http://www.arrl.org/ccr-study-information

CCR Regulations
http://www.arrl.org/ccr-regulations

It is important that when you provide specifics of your CC&R, you also provide the ARRL with a copy of its actual wording. If you have the CC&R in a digital format (or you can scan the document into a file), it can either be uploaded through the website above or it can be sent via an e-mail to [email protected] . If you do not have an electronic format, a hard copy may be sent via US mail to: CCR Study Information, ARRL, 225 Main St, Newington, CT 06111.

RobertC14

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RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

just a side note: i remember in a number of threads when the subject popped up here that out right antenna bans in HOA's were not only unnecessary but would eventually back fire and the government would have no choice but to step in and over ride these restrictions as they did with satellite and tv antenna's. I also remember stating that HOA's should work with licensed amateurs and the community in crafting reasonable allowances.

I think IIRC and cannot confirm without searching the forum for past posts that one or two other forum members had made similar statements.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

No matter how you look at HOA rules on amateur radio antennas, OTARD specifically did not mention them. Therefore, until a government ruling occurs, the HOA rules would apply.

Personally, I applaud amateur radio operators. I can also understand the concern over antennas for Associations. Depending on the frequency requirements,wave length and number of segments, antennas vary in size so much that it's difficult to write rules. After all if you allow one frequency you open the door to possible litigation when someone wants to use a different frequency. Property size may necessitate vertical antennas over horizontal antennas. Vertical antennas (depending on the height required), if not properly maintained (and sometimes when they are) can become eyesores especially with houses being built as close together as they are today.

I believe that the thing which helped the passing of OTARD, was that the FCC could limit the size of the antenna because the size of the antenna required was finally minimized enough to allow the rules to be adopted. I do believe that in time, the FCC will provide some similar guidelines for Amateur Radio as they did for Over the air reception devices (OTARD). However, I think the antenna size will be the determining factor and any FCC ruling may only address certain frequencies (bands) as a way to have a compromise.

Robert,

Out of curiosity, since your a HAM operator, would you be happy if an HOA allowed a specific band of frequencies and not others?
Keeping in mind antenna requirements, what bands would you be willing to allow say in a town home development?

Tim

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

This is interesting to me. We have a ham radio operator who the Board a few yrs ago gave permission to place equipment on the roof. The equipment got damaged some way and the owner complained to the Board.
I will save this and read when I have more time.

RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

the best answer i can give to visibility is look up "Stelath Ham Radio Antenna" in google. there are lot's of very good examples and are viable from 1.8mhz (160 meters) all the way up into vhf/uhf and microwave frequencies.

antenna's can be disguised and hidden in anything. an effective vertical for 160 meters can be 35ft from ground to tip over a buried ground radial system with an antenna tuning unit at base or a loop hidden under eve's of house.

anything is possible and they can be well hidden yet still effective.

RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

i am actually in a rush but the history of antenna bans in the usa has nothing to do with aesthetics, safety or property values.

it came about from the cable industry paying off apartment complexes, municipalities, and communities in the form of pre wiring the area for cable free provided that over the air antenna's be banned so as to force any of the competition out and protect their interests.

property values, aesthetics and safety were just excuses and over the years most have forgotten what the real reason for antenna bans were and just accepted it was these excuses that they were banned.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

I speak as a former amateur license holder and a guy who knows something about antennas.

>property values, aesthetics and safety were just excuses and over the years most have forgotten what the real reason for antenna bans were and just accepted it was these excuses that they were banned.

I disagree. The BEST antenna is high above the surrounding objects and has a size determined by the wavelength. A 20 meter beam on a tower is a VERY imposing structure, would be way out of place in a townhome community, and would cause significant damage to surrounding structures if it fell.

> antenna's can be disguised and hidden in anything.

Working antennas can be made almost any size. Small antennas always represent a tradeoff between effectiveness and size.

RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

we are not talking the best. i have been working with hidden compromised antenna's since i've been in radio. 1st my parents hated my hobby than i have lived in apartments most of my life. not only am i a currently licensed ham, i also have considerable experience in general RF and broadcast engineering.

anyone can worked the world with a full size beam on a 70ft tower pushing 1.5kW pep into that system but in a true natural disaster chances are that 70ft tower will be on the ground in pieces and it will be the guys running qrp into compromised antenna's on a daily basis who will be more effective during an emergency as they are used to working those conditions on a regular basis.

this is also not the forum to argue the technical aspects of this issue.

as for the legal. almost every HOA has an ARC.

it can be written into the rules in such a manner that the ARC can make decisions on a case by case basis in the same manner a municipality can using a variance.

there could be very basic set of requirements around visibility and safety.

again. research stealth ham antenna's.

i don't think 99% of the hams are asking for 75ft towers in congested residential neighborhoods only the ability to install modest low profile antenna's. me personally even if i could put a full size tower i wouldn't. i rather not let the neighborhood know i'm there. out of sight out of mind. even on the rare occasion i landed in an antenna friendly place i still hid my antenna's.

on a decent sized home a full wave 160m loop can be put around the eves of the home and be very effective and a tuner can be attached to this loop to work all the hf ham band's. for vhf and uhf there is a nifty little antenna that slides over the vent pipe and unless you know that such a product exists is almost indistinguishable from an actual stock vent pipe.

i'm mean this is just off the top of my head.

now we both have our opinions and have dug our heals in so i will no longer waste anymore time arguing the technical aspects of this issue because it will surely get this topic deleted if we continue on that path.

all i can say to anyone.

do the research.

when i have more time later in the week i will come back and post some google search urls' and some direct links to get you all started on research.

ham radio no longer means RFI/TVI and huge obtrusive antenna's as it did in the past.

plain and simple as that.

also the early 80's satellite ban and the booze war of the 1920's and the current drug war and antenna bans are glaring examples that outright prohibition on something simply DOES NOT WORK.

it's the weekend and i'm spending time with my wife. as stated earlier during the week while she is working i will post some links for research.

RobertC14 (Colorado)
Posts: 78

Posted:

some of the links i promised...

Rain Gutter antenna
http://www.sgcworld.com/raingutterinstall.html

The WB0DGF Antenna Site Stealth (Hidden) Ham Antennas
http://wb0dgf.com/stealth.htm

Stealth Amateur Radio
http://www.g4ilo.com/stealth.html

10 Ultra Stealth Antenna Designs For HOA's
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?260566-10-Ultra-Stealth-Antenna-Designs-For-HOA-s

Eham antenna restrictions forum
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/board,2.0.html

this should be a good start for researching stealth antennas in hoa's

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