Meeting tape

Started by PamelaM5 • 20 replies • 1785 views

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PamelaM5 (Florida)
Posts: 85

Posted:

I'm the secretary of a HOA in FL. I use my own digital recorder to record board meetings and make the tapes for my own use in transcribing the minutes. Does a board member who disagrees with what was put in the minutes have the right to hear the tapes? They're on a recorder that has no USB connection to a computer and can't be saved to a computer as a file, and because the tape she wants to hear might become part of legal proceedings involving a decision she made, I'm reluctant to let the recorder out of my hands.

Does anyone have a clue?

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251

Posted:

I would offer her to listen to the tape with you. Possibly do it at the next board meeting with other members present. Minutes would have to be approved at the next meeting anyway.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeffR7 on 04/07/2012 11:02 AM
I would offer her to listen to the tape with you. Possibly do it at the next board meeting with other members present. Minutes would have to be approved at the next meeting anyway.

Sounds like a good way to settle the issue to me.

PamelaM5 (Florida)
Posts: 85

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceF1 on 04/07/2012 11:52 AM

Sounds like a good way to settle the issue to me.

It's a possibility, of course, but the tape is 91 minutes long and listening to it in the middle of a meeting would extend the meeting to about 3 hours.

I suppose that what I really want to know is if members have a legal right to the tapes, or if the minutes are the official documents.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Pamela

She could object to the Minutes being accepted and ask for clarification/modification at that time and cite the tape recordings.

I suggest you might listen to them and mark the area she is disagreeing with your minutes about, then just play that part at the meeting.

I think trying to ignore/evade/wwork around her concern is not the way to go.

PamelaM5 (Florida)
Posts: 85

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/07/2012 12:33 PM
Pamela

She could object to the Minutes being accepted and ask for clarification/modification at that time and cite the tape recordings.

I suggest you might listen to them and mark the area she is disagreeing with your minutes about, then just play that part at the meeting.

I think trying to ignore/evade/wwork around her concern is not the way to go.

That's a good idea. I know exactly which part is in contention and can mark it. The only problem now is that I can't continue to record the meeting when I'm playing the last meeting, but I can work around that.

Suppose there was no tape, though? Would she have the right to ask to see the notes I took? I guess the real problem is that she's doubting my honesty and I don't like that one bit.

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565

Posted:

Are the recorder and tape your personal property or were they bought for you by the association? If they were bought by the association and you used them in your official capacity of Secretary, then I think the tape would be considered a record of the association and would have to be made available to any member upon request.

Otherwise, I think the tape is no different than if you had taken notes of the meeting. They are your personal property and, as such, yours to do with as you see fit.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Pamela,

One problem is that people often hear things differently and also have different memories. Sometimes what people believe they have heard or remembered is their interpretation of what they heard at the time, which can be different from what you or others believe was said.

In approving the minutes, what should be placed in the minutes is what the majority of the board thinks took place; not what any one person thinks took place.

As for whether a person has a right to listen to the tape or to see your notes., that really shouldn't matter. What is important is that the minutes reflect as close as possible what the majority agrees actually transpired.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

All

One BOD I was on, tape recorded our meetings and was kept as part of our record. Any member could ask for and receive a copy of the tape(s). We did charge for copying.

Tape recordings are simple, small, easy to use, and a good record. Our actual written minutes contained little other then Motions Made and Seconded.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaM5 on 04/07/2012 10:20 AM
I'm the secretary of a HOA in FL. I use my own digital recorder to record board meetings and make the tapes for my own use in transcribing the minutes. Does a board member who disagrees with what was put in the minutes have the right to hear the tapes?

Not only does the Board member have a right to listen to the recording. So does any member.
Since a board member took the recording, vs. written notes, for the purpose of making the minutes, as long as the recording exists it's considered part of the official records.

I would recommend that a policy be enacted by the board that once the written minutes are accepted, the recording is destroyed. This way, you have a written policy on how long the recordings will be kept and no one could accuse you, or the Association of destroying official records if a legal issue arose.

This way you can keep the using the voice recorder, allow the board to listen to them if needed to verify what is in the written record, and then record over the old recording.

Tim

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Tim

I always felt good/comfortable that we recorded all BOD Meetings. We could go back and look (listen actually) if any questions came up. It also cut down on the written minutes and made the BOD Secretary's job much easier.

100 mini-cassette tapes will fit in a show box and a two hour tape cost about $3.00 an less in a volume buy. All in all, a cheap, easily stored, accurate record of everything.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Pamela,
Apparently, the director wants to amend the minutes. When a director here wants to amend the minutes, s/he states that while the board is meeting and we've come to the minutes approval agenda item. In cases where there's disagreement, the board votes on whether to amend the minutes. If amended, the board would agree on the wording of the amendment. It, as Bruce points out, the board's decision, not any individual director's. (No one tapes our meetings.)

I'm sure it is upsetting to have your honesty questioned, but since you're able to play the relevant snippet, that seems a good solution. It would seem to be OK to not tape a few minutes of the meeting that's in progress.

I entirely agree with Tim. Encourage your Board to make a policy that once the minutes have been approved, the tape should be recorded over. The minutes are, indeed, the official record of your HOA and should, indeed, only include board action: motions, seconds, votes and outcomes. I would hope that the director who doubts you is concerned about actual board business done, not something superfluous. Everything else on the tapes does not matter and the tapes could easily be misinterpreted around irrelevant, offhand comments, etc.

EricH8 (Virginia)
Posts: 116

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaM5 on 04/07/2012 10:20 AM
They're on a recorder that has no USB connection to a computer and can't be saved to a computer as a file

Every digital recorder has a headphone output. Every computer has an analog audio line-level input, and audio recording software. Therefore you CAN save your recording as a computer file.

PamelaM5 (Florida)
Posts: 85

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolR11 on 04/07/2012 3:29 PM
Pamela,
Apparently, the director wants to amend the minutes. When a director here wants to amend the minutes, s/he states that while the board is meeting and we've come to the minutes approval agenda item. In cases where there's disagreement, the board votes on whether to amend the minutes. If amended, the board would agree on the wording of the amendment. It, as Bruce points out, the board's decision, not any individual director's. (No one tapes our meetings.)

I'm sure it is upsetting to have your honesty questioned, but since you're able to play the relevant snippet, that seems a good solution. It would seem to be OK to not tape a few minutes of the meeting that's in progress.

I entirely agree with Tim. Encourage your Board to make a policy that once the minutes have been approved, the tape should be recorded over. The minutes are, indeed, the official record of your HOA and should, indeed, only include board action: motions, seconds, votes and outcomes. I would hope that the director who doubts you is concerned about actual board business done, not something superfluous. Everything else on the tapes does not matter and the tapes could easily be misinterpreted around irrelevant, offhand comments, etc.

Actually, what she's concerned about is petty BS that has nothing to do with motions or outcomes. She also wants sentences rewritten that say basically the same thing that I said, and her husband - a non-board member - got involved by making changes to my minutes, too.

I'm hardly illiterate - I have a MA + 15 in Education and spent years writing grants for a living. She's just being obnoxious and I just hate wasting everyone's time dealing with her dysfunctional personality.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

If the secretary disagrees with the change, the language should be voted on by the board. A simple majority vote will be the decision.

Tim

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Ah, Pamela, thanks for the clarification.

Going forward: Type minutes that say only what was done, not said, i.e., type the motions, seconds, votes and board decisions. That way, she cannot quibble about petty BS. Petty BS shouldn't be in the minutes.

I don't know about FL, but in CA, homeowners ( the woman's husband) are not permitted to read draft minutes until 30 days following the relevant meeting. He has no business whatsoever making corrections!!

Directors receive the draft minutes in our directors packets 7 days before the meeting where they'll be approved. Our PM types them up and I, as secretary, get them a few days before the rest of the directors do. I only, however, correct writing errors, e.g., typos. Only the board voting at the meeting may amend or approve the minutes.

If the woman's objection has nothing to do with action the board took, if I were you, I'd make a motion for an an amendment to delete the section entirely.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

If the BOD has no official policy of using recorded media to document meetings and HOA business, I don't see how there's a community "right" to listen to it. It's been recorded as personal effort, technically. There's also no official mechanism for archiving meeting audio, it appears.

The minutes reflect the board's official business an no recording replaces that. The battle is over the acceptance of the minutes at your next meeting and clarifying any confusion.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 04/08/2012 6:22 PM
It's been recorded as personal effort, technically.

It may have been a personal decision but the individual making that decision was the Secretary of the Association, who by their own admission, uses it to type up the minutes. Therefore, one could argue it's an official record of the meeting. As an official record, members would have a right to review it.

At the very least, any such recordings would certainly be discoverable in a legal challenge.

PamelaM5 (Florida)
Posts: 85

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/08/2012 6:37 PM

Posted By KellyM3 on 04/08/2012 6:22 PM
It's been recorded as personal effort, technically.

Just out of curiosity, suppose there was no recording and only my notes were used to write the minutes. Would they have to be shared with another board member who asked to see them?

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamelaM5 on 04/10/2012 5:23 AM

Posted By TimB4 on 04/08/2012 6:37 PM

Posted By KellyM3 on 04/08/2012 6:22 PM
It's been recorded as personal effort, technically.

Just out of curiosity, suppose there was no recording and only my notes were used to write the minutes. Would they have to be shared with another board member who asked to see them?

If they have to be shared then I guess that means that if one is accustomed to doodling on their notes (as I am) one must be careful as to the nature of the doodles.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Pam

To revisit the root of the issue.

Ask yourself if you are including to much in the minutes. Motions and actions taken on them most certainly should be in there. They are the most critical part of a BOD Meeting. The rest is basically discussions.

Other then Motions, the minutes should be very general, Often two lines can cover an hours discussion like:

Discussion was held concerning relandscaping the front entrance way. No decisions were made nor action planned.

The old addage KISS....Keep It Simple Stupid.......LOL

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