MANAGEMENT COMPANY

Started by NormaM1 • 19 replies • 1335 views

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NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Since Florida Statute says:

720.303
(2) BOARD MEETINGS.—
(a) A meeting of the board of directors of an association occurs whenever a quorum of the board gathers to conduct association business. ALL MEETINGS OF THE BOARD MUST BE OPEN TO ALL MEMBERS EXCEPT FOR MEETINGS BETWEEN THE BOARD AND ITS ATTORNEY WITH RESPECT TO PROPOSED OR PENDING LITIGATION where the contents of the discussion would otherwise be governed by the attorney-client privilege. The provisions of this subsection shall also apply to the meetings of any committee or other similar body when a final decision will be made regarding the expenditure of association funds and to meetings of any body vested with the power to approve or disapprove architectural decisions with respect to a specific parcel of residential property owned by a member of the community.

Our By-Laws do NOT say anything about the Board having meetings BEFORE a monthly meeting.

My question is: What steps can we take to let the management company know that what the board is doing is illegal, and THEIR LICENSE is in jeopardy because they allow it? Should we write to the management company or is there an agency we can complain to?

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

There is further paragraph of the 2011 720.303 Statute that has another reason that the board can meet privately......Read the last sentence.
(b) Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated items. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak. Notwithstanding any other law, meetings between the board or a committee and the association’s attorney to discuss proposed or pending litigation or meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors.

If your board were discussing personnel matters they can meet privately.

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolF on 04/06/2012 2:18 PM
There is further paragraph of the 2011 720.303 Statute that has another reason that the board can meet privately......Read the last sentence.
(b) Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated items. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak. Notwithstanding any other law, meetings between the board or a committee and the association’s attorney to discuss proposed or pending litigation or meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors.

If your board were discussing personnel matters they can meet privately.

I understand this. They do NOT meet with the attorney every month. He is NOT there. We are there early enough to always see them together. NO ATTORNEY PRESENT. What now?

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

The attorney does not have to be there for meetings in which personnel issues are discussed.

"meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors."

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Norma,

The management company works for the Board. If the management company has informed the board that the meetings need to be open and the board ignores that advice, I don't think that the management companies license is in danger.

Just as a Dr. wouldn't be guilty of malpractice if a Dr. tells someone that they must lose weight and that person gains another 5 lbs and has a heart attack. The Dr. advised the patient as they were required to do. I would suspect that your MC is doing the same.

Any issues on how an Association is ran is an issue between the membership and the Board and the issue should be directed to the Board as only the Board can resolve it.

I suspect, since specifics were not provided, that your Board is holding meetings and not allowing members to attend. The typical methods of approaching this are (in no specific order):

a) Take a demanding approach and show up at the meeting and remind them of the law in person

b) Take a helpful approach and send a polite letter to the President, with a copy to each board member and MC, that you are concerned about potential issues that can arise if all board meetings are not published and open to the membership. Cite the law and specify how you are interpreting it. Then ask if you are interpreting it correctly. Then provide examples on how you perceive that this law was being violated.

c) Take a legal stand and have an attorney write a demand letter (won't win you friends but will place them on notice). Of course this may be seen as a threat and you might have to follow through with your threat or risk being seen as someone who bluffs. Personally, I wouldn't use this approach unless all other approaches failed.

d) Wait until elections and vote the bums out

e) Start a recall campaign based on this issue

f) Toss you hat into the ring and see if you can be elected to the board and change things from the inside

g) Live with it and complain.

h) Live with it and ignore it.

i) move.

Oh, as a side note, in e-mail and forums the use of all capital letters is typically interpreted as if someone is Yelling to draw attention. I know that when you cited the section of the law in your post, you were using it to highlight the area of importance. I'm not sure why you use all capital letters in your subject line. In the years I've been here I've never seen a thread go unanswered using normal type.

If you would like to learn how to bold, underline, etc., here is a links to a sites that has examples:
how to post a link
Bolding text
Underlining text
to use Smilies

I don't know if all of these work in this forum.

Tim

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Hello TimB:

I know about internet etiquette. And yes, you are correct, I use them to highlight the part in question, or stated.

I like my subject to be in capitals. It is to me like a title to a "book". If this bothers you, you do not need to reply.

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

;-) LOL!

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

;-) LOL!

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

No, I guess they don't all work. But, thank you for those links.

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolF on 04/06/2012 2:46 PM
The attorney does not have to be there for meetings in which personnel issues are discussed.

"meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors."

Duh! LOL, I got it. Thank you for clearing that up.

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Hey! It worked! Thank you TimB!

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Norma, Didn't you already ask this forum this same question not long ago? Or was it "Simone"? Please check the replies to that one too.

I'm curious about Florida now. Does the statute cited mean that matters having to do with homeowner discipline, i.e., fines, penalties, hearings, discussions of liens also must take place in open meetings? (In CA, we legally are permitted and do discuss these matters in closed [executive] session). We (the Board) always meet in executive session immediately prior to our regular (open) meeting). This too is permitted in CA. Per state statute, at the beginning of the open meeting, the meeting chair summarizes the topics of the executive session.

I believe that I wrote in an earlier reply to one of your posts on this topic that when I was elected to our board, I reviewed all of the minutes of executive sessions going back a couple of years and, as many of us suspected, matters were discussed in executive session that should not have been.

If your PM's contract says that the Mgmt. Co. may not follow the board's directives if the latter oppose your governing documents or state laws, I would contact your PM's superior. But you'd need proof that your PM is, in fact, doing something wrong.

I, too, would appreciate far fewer capitalized words.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NormaM1 on 04/06/2012 2:59 PM

I like my subject to be in capitals. It is to me like a title to a "book". If this bothers you, you do not need to reply.

I just didn't know if you were aware.
Yep, it is annoying to me. However, that's my issue. Thank you for explaining why you use them.

Wouldn't it be great if those could be the only annoyances in life

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolR11 on 04/06/2012 3:13 PM
Norma, Didn't you already ask this forum this same question not long ago? Or was it "Simone"? Please check the replies to that one too.

I'm curious about Florida now. Does the statute cited mean that matters having to do with homeowner discipline, i.e., fines, penalties, hearings, discussions of liens also must take place in open meetings? (In CA, we legally are permitted and do discuss these matters in closed [executive] session). We (the Board) always meet in executive session immediately prior to our regular (open) meeting). This too is permitted in CA. Per state statute, at the beginning of the open meeting, the meeting chair summarizes the topics of the executive session.

I believe that I wrote in an earlier reply to one of your posts on this topic that when I was elected to our board, I reviewed all of the minutes of executive sessions going back a couple of years and, as many of us suspected, matters were discussed in executive session that should not have been.

If your PM's contract says that the Mgmt. Co. may not follow the board's directives if the latter oppose your governing documents or state laws, I would contact your PM's superior. But you'd need proof that your PM is, in fact, doing something wrong.

I, too, would appreciate far fewer capitalized words.

Geez, what is it with you and Simone? Let her out of my discussions. If she did write about the management company, I do not see a TITLE with it. I have NOT gone down all the thousands of posts that are in this website. Nor do I intend to. I only try to read topics that are FLORIDA related. Not only that, I also have a life.

(I believe that I wrote in an earlier reply to one of your posts on this topic that when I was elected to our board, I reviewed all of the minutes of executive sessions going back a couple of years and, as many of us suspected, matters were discussed in executive session that should not have been.)

I remember reading this but don't recall the topic. Or whose thread it was in.

What are EXECUTIVE SESSIONS? Our By-Laws does NOT use this wording.

NormaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 17

Posted:

Quote:

Hey CarolF:

What part of Florida do you hail from? I am in Broward County.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Norma,

Executive sessions are meetings closed to the membership. Executive Sessions are between board members and invited guests (those who have specific contributions to make to the topic being discussed) only. They are typically used for discussion of sensitive topics that should not be shared with the entire membership. Decisions, motions and votes are not to be held in executive session.

Many States have laws that specify what topics may be discussed in executive session.

FL also has these laws but are not as specific as other states (example personnel matters can have various definitions):

(b) Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated items. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak. Notwithstanding any other law, meetings between the board or a committee and the association’s attorney to discuss proposed or pending litigation or meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Executive Sessions are generally to discuss personnel, confidential issues, etc.

One classic HOA situation. The BOD receives a letter from an owner complaining about the actions, etc. of another homeowner and/or accusing them of a docs violation. This is the first time the BOD has heard about such and has no idea who is right or wrong. Which way would you prefer they proceed:

1. They read the letter/accusation outloud at the next homeowner meeting with all names, addresses, phone numbers, etc. mentioned?

2. They discuss it in private (Executive Session) and decide to look into the situation before they take any action?

Your choice. Many times you cannot have your cake and eat it also.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Norma, sometimes Executive Sessions are termed "closed sessions," or "closed meetings," because there are not "open" for Owners (Association Members) to attend. The Board meets in private, but as discussed, they only may do so regarding certain topics.

A recent such topic here was a delinquent owner who sent us directors a written request for a payment plan so that he could catch up on his dues.

MartinH2 (Florida)
Posts: 24

Posted:

Norm,
The law is very clear.

First, to avoid miscommunication I always communicate in writing on BOD matters.

If the BOD is meting without notice to the members and discussing ANYTHING other than personal or legal matters I would do the following:

1. Mail a certified letter to all Board members and the President of the management company stating my charge that the BOD is violating the Florida HOA 720 law. Be specific.

2. I would request a written response from the BOD and the management company.

3. If the response is not forthcoming or fails to address your concerns I would communicate with the State of Florida and copy the BOD and The management co.

Finally, I would also contact an attorney to represent my interests in this matter.

Good luck

SimoneT (Florida)
Posts: 116

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MartinH2 on 04/07/2012 11:06 AM
Norm,
The law is very clear.

First, to avoid miscommunication I always communicate in writing on BOD matters.

If the BOD is meting without notice to the members and discussing ANYTHING other than personal or legal matters I would do the following:

1. Mail a certified letter to all Board members and the President of the management company stating my charge that the BOD is violating the Florida HOA 720 law. Be specific.

2. I would request a written response from the BOD and the management company.

3. If the response is not forthcoming or fails to address your concerns I would communicate with the State of Florida and copy the BOD and The management co.

Finally, I would also contact an attorney to represent my interests in this matter.

Good luck

Hello MartinH:

The only communication here with our BOD is when they will hold a monthly meeting.

I guess we are s___ out of luck, since how do we know what they are discussing behind closed doors.

I will look more into this and will write a letter.

Thank you for your reply.

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