Pool Smoking Policies - 2012 Style

Started by KellyM3 • 14 replies • 2820 views

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KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

I've got a new board member pushing to ban smoking at our outdoor pool. I have heard, during the past two years, three complaints about pool smoking out of the 236 properties the comprise our HOA. Here in NC, outdoor smoking is a legal activity on both public and private properties. Our pool, of course, is private access by definition. For the record, I did read the 2009 thread here on HOATalk.com regarding pool smoking.

For the record, in my four years of HOA service and three as president, I've heard three complaints about pool smoking out of a 236 property community. Our pool doesn't feature a daily pool attendant who can enforce rules and our budget isn't equipped to hire anyone, leaving a smoking ban enforcement to board members, our property manager, myself or private dues payers (who won't enforce but rather call someone else, like me the president, to run down to the pool and "crack down.")

Admittedly, I'm hesitant to approve new rules that apply punitive measures against dues payers and I'm very hesitant to pass new rules when I can see no option of effectively and uniformly applying a smoking ban. My only scenario is a he said/she said "investigation" of smoking violations, which cannot be enforced or patently confirmed. Having board members yelling at pool users and pointing at "no smoking" signs would not only be ineffective but poison the environment further.

Surrounding the pool, our landscaping features pine straw and our property line contours closely to the pool gate area, meaning our jurisdiction ends within about 20 feet of the gate surrounding the pool. Also, smoking outside the gate would not alleviate the complaints and may place smokers, logistically, CLOSER to the deck chairs than otherwise.

I know how I lean based on how this ban's implementation would likely play out but I'm also empathetic to non-smokers. I'm a non-smoker, just one that doesn't give outdoor tobacco smoke exposure more weight than breathing car exhaust fumes as an outdoor irritant.

Help appreciated.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I'd suggest doing a poll of the membership or hold a membership vote on the rule (by making it a bylaw amendment).

This way, the decision would be influenced or made by the membership vs. the few who make up the board.

I'd suggest a poll perhaps with options like alternate weekends, days or hours for the ban.

My Association used a poll (oppose, support) and if they support variations of supporting the issue. We sent the poll with stamped self return envelopes and requested any additional comments they might want to include. The Association also included both views of the argument from the two most outspoken members about the issue. The poll was tallied and any and all comments from the membership were included. This document was made an attachment to the minutes of the meeting where the decision was made (as it allowed anyone interested to see the membership response).

What we found out was that of those who responded (57%) most didn't really care one way or the other (as evidenced by the comments).

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

It so easily gets convoluted. My wonder is if it's logistically possible. I'm not enamored by HOA boards passing resolutions that make noise but say nothing. What a waste of time.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

If your asking if it's logistically possible to enforce, the question would be yes. It might not be cheap but it can be done.
This could be done by:

1) hiring someone to monitor the pool
2) Only respond to complaints about the violation vs. actively trying to catch every violator.

Have you explored all options?

Perhaps a section of the pool deck could be marked off for smokers.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Kelly

As NC is pretty po=tobacco I would suggest anything you do not run afoul of local laws.

Off the top of my head I would think that designating a specific pool area as a smoking area might work best.

Hope this helps.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I was going to suggest John's idea too. Part of what you wrote earlier, Kelly, is that even an area outside the pool gate is too close to the deck chairs. But perhaps there's a small pool area that's further away and, ideally, downwind from the deck chairs.

Personally, if I was being bothered by smoke, I'd politely ask the smoker(s) if they'd mind moving "over there." Nowadays, most smokers (even in NC!) are sensitive to their smoke and are cooperative. But as a director for 5+ years, I know that some residents would rather gripe than to politely speak with those who annoy them.

I'd hardly call 3 complaints over 4 years, though, some sort of crisis.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

A portion of our pool deck is a slightly raised wooden deck. That could serve the smoking area purpose.

"But, the wind blows it towards us." - I can hear it now.

We don't have the budget to drop a couple of thousand bucks for human monitors, especially for a legal activity.

But, the board will likely discuss it.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

Very few non-smoking areas in the rest of the US are "enforced." The reality is that in the US smoking is increasingly regarded as unacceptable where it influences other people. And smokers know it. If there was general agreement to not allow smoking, if it was well known that this is the case, and you posted no smoking signs, I suspect you would have few problems with violations.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Fred makes a good point, Kelly. We banned smoking in our pool area about 2 years ago. I have a good view of the pool & have seen maybe one violation, but no one else was using the pool and I didn't report it. As a director, I've seen no reports of violations.

Re: a small Smoking Area. We've also changed a couple of policies subject to a 60-day trial period for residents' feedback. Perhaps a trial period is worth a try.

I & many others here don't like a bunch of signs plastered around, so our no-smoking ones are the usual round symbol, but they have a bushed stainless look and are exactly above the fob reader to enter the pool--can't be missed. Instead of no smoking symbols, though, you could think about a small sign in the Smokers' Area that maybe says Designated for Smoking, or some such.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

All

Let us not forget Kelly is in NC. The tobacco capitol of the US. He is not in white wine sipping, Volvo driving, fern bar hanging, tree hugging CA.....LOL

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

"Fern bar hanging," Jon? When was the last time you were in CA--1973? ; )

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

#1: Bless you Kelly, for having the sense to think through the impact and effects, or ineffects, of a rule before making it. I wish more people did, including my bosses, my corporate office, and my government. My dad always cautioned me: "Never make a rule you can't enforce"

#2: Taking a poll, opening it up, asking the membership, all good ideas. Get everyone involved, so it becomes their problem and their decision.

#3: Try some education along the way. Granted, NC not as dry as where I live, but aside from the health effects of smoking, how about reminding folks about the fire hazards? Pine trees shed needles, needles are combustible, smokers are typically really bad about policing themselves and their butts. In addition, perhaps some pool rules about smoking "X feet away" from the pool or the deck simply for trash sake... butts in the pool are disgusting, filters getting clogged means more repair of the pool system, etc..

#4: If smoking isn't banned, use a smoker's stand to direct people (subtly) to where they can smoke. PLacing the disposal container where you want it will probably get 8 of 10 smokers to stand there to smoke, and they will place their butts in the can provided. We did this at my work, and subtly shifted the locations where people gathered to smoke, without complaint. they just tended to congregate where we placed the butt can.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredS7 on 03/31/2012 1:53 PM
Very few non-smoking areas in the rest of the US are "enforced." The reality is that in the US smoking is increasingly regarded as unacceptable where it influences other people. And smokers know it. If there was general agreement to not allow smoking, if it was well known that this is the case, and you posted no smoking signs, I suspect you would have few problems with violations.

I agree with Fred. A simple "No Smoking" sign would let the smokers know not to smoke there. Without a sign, some smokers may assume that it is OK to light up. I see no reason to enact unenforceable rules when a $5 sign can achieve the same results. Yes, there will be one or two who ignore the sign but they are the same ones who will ignore a formal rule.

BruceD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 59

Posted:

Check with your county code. Smoking and food both may not be allowed on the pool deck or within so many feet of the pool.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

The issue is passing a policy that serves more as a gentle reminder about smoking versus a policy with "teeth."

In NC, outdoor smoking is certainly legal.

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