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ToniW (North Carolina)
Posts: 28
Posted:
We have an owner who, withing 4 months of moving in, petitioned the Board to make extensive (and costly) grading and drainage improvements to the area beside and behind his building. He is the end unit. He bought the unit as a foreclosure 'As Is" and made a lot of repairs inside and out and is still in progress inside.

The grading and drainage improvements were made to move water away from the building (it pooled on his front stoop) and towards the back of the property to a swale. He was happy with the work that was done. Note: His unit sits at the edge of downhill grades from the road but is flat otherwise. Water naturally wants to go either to the front lot or back swale to a drainage ditch.

He contacted me this week to tell me that his contractor found wetness around the casing of his front door and he informed me that he plans to have the HOA replace it all because it's our responsibility because we were supposed to correct the drainage and obviously didn't. He says we've been negligent. After having spent $6000 to correct the problems he had initially AND him being very happy with the end result, I am now rather frustrated at this.

We hired a contractor to FIX the problem last August and this owner was very satisfied with it all. Now he says that because water is still coming on his porch, which he hasn't mentioned previously, we are negligent and must replace or repair the door.

Our by-laws state that owners are responsible for maintenance and repair of doors, windows, panes and screens as these are parts of the unit. Our responsibility comes in when we have failed to perform maintenance or repairs to prevent damage.

We spent $6000 to improve drainage and he was satisfied. Now he isn't. At the same time, I understand that the door can't get wet unless water hits it. All owners do have the responsibility to correct and mitigate issues before they become problems. He has only recently placed edging and landscaping materials beside his porch to redirect the water flow away. He has agreed to see if this fully solves the problem and the area dries out.

My thoughts are that we are not totally at fault on this as we DID perform repairs to his satisfaction (at least up until last week). The contractor who made did the grading work indicated that it would move water away from the building, which it obviously did not. And lastly, doesn't the owner have responsibility to tell us that water is still coming on his porch sooner rather than later?

I do think the HOA should pay for what it is responsible for - however, this one is not clear cut to me.

I know it likely requires a legal opinion but I did want to ask if anyone has had similar issues. We have an exceptionally tight budget and LOTS of capital improvements to do so we'd like to not spend money we don't have to.

thanks
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I had to deal with some similar issues. This is a problem that only occurs when it rains. It is NOT a permanent issue where it's exposed to water every day. The drainage repairs were the right solution and happy the HOA did see the light to fix that. We had to do the same thing. However, now that the repairs/changes have occurred it's always going to cause another issue. The water flow has changed and conditions. I would ask if approval for the new edging and landscaping was approved by the HOA? This could be a contributing factor changing the setup causing the water build up. It may not help but cause the issue. If that is the case, then the owner is responsible for the door.

Does the building have gutters? This could be a situation where putting on or repairs of gutters may help the situation. However, the HOA is NOT responsible for installing of the gutters. It can approve the owner to install them but NOT pay for them. Gutters may be able to provide a way for the water to stay away from the front of the building. Now if this is a solid unit that the front facade is all shared then the HOA may consider putting up gutters to benefit all. I don't know the exact setup to say if that would be another option.

I still think the door replacement is the owner's responsibility. The HOA should just be involved in approving solutions that may prevent further damage. Changes to the landscaping can cause this situation so make sure the HOA is aware of any adaptations or changes to it. One plant or border can really change the flow.

Former HOA President
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
The contractor who made did the grading work indicated that it would move water away from the building, which it obviously did not.


I would call the contractor back, tell him your issues and let him asses the situation.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
The contractor who made did the grading work indicated that it would move water away from the building, which it obviously did not.


I would call the contractor back, tell him your issues and let him asses the situation.
ToniW (North Carolina)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/29/2012 3:21 PM
I had to deal with some similar issues. This is a problem that only occurs when it rains. It is NOT a permanent issue where it's exposed to water every day. The drainage repairs were the right solution and happy the HOA did see the light to fix that. We had to do the same thing. However, now that the repairs/changes have occurred it's always going to cause another issue. The water flow has changed and conditions. I would ask if approval for the new edging and landscaping was approved by the HOA? This could be a contributing factor changing the setup causing the water build up. It may not help but cause the issue. If that is the case, then the owner is responsible for the door.

Does the building have gutters? This could be a situation where putting on or repairs of gutters may help the situation. However, the HOA is NOT responsible for installing of the gutters. It can approve the owner to install them but NOT pay for them. Gutters may be able to provide a way for the water to stay away from the front of the building. Now if this is a solid unit that the front facade is all shared then the HOA may consider putting up gutters to benefit all. I don't know the exact setup to say if that would be another option.

I still think the door replacement is the owner's responsibility. The HOA should just be involved in approving solutions that may prevent further damage. Changes to the landscaping can cause this situation so make sure the HOA is aware of any adaptations or changes to it. One plant or border can really change the flow.

Thanks for your response, Melissa.

To clarify - the edging and landscaping materials have not been put in place - they've been suggested to help redirect flow away from the sidewalk. The building does have gutters, however they lack sufficient downspouts and are really too small for the surface area(we've had this investigated on other buildings that have been repaired). During excessive rainfalls such as we had this past weekend, water just flows over the top and pours down all over the fronts of the units. We do have capital improvement plans in place, however, we have areas that are far more critical than this that have had NO work - this unit and this area has had a lot. This owner is a 'squeaky wheel' kind of person. That said, the HOA has cleaned or replaced gutters in other areas. He is also very litigious and will fight over small things (he is an insurance claims guy) and has 'letters' from contractors stating it is because the HOA did this or didn't do that that this has resulted.

Our by-laws are clear that common areas that are exclusively used by any unit are that owner's responsibility unless it's part of more widespread (insurable event) repairs due to major structural damage. Windows and doors are specifically mentioned to be owner responsibility. This owner is claiming that we are negligent and therefore responsible because water is not being moved away from his door. Much of this IS beyond our ability to do anything about due to the way the property was built and landscaped originally. His unit was a foreclosure and the front door is the original.

I'm trying to find a happy medium in balancing needs of the community vs. 'squeaky wheels'. I have asked him to address solutions with landscaping materials to see if that resolves the issue and he has agreed to give that a try.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Just one quick question who hired the contractor to perform the work done?

And this contractor decided it was a good idea to provide this unit owner with letters assigning blame to the HOA?

IF the HOA hired them this would be the last time. IF the owner hired them IMO this should no have been allowed to happen.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 04/02/2012 7:17 AM
Just one quick question who hired the contractor to perform the work done?

And this contractor decided it was a good idea to provide this unit owner with letters assigning blame to the HOA?

IF the HOA hired them this would be the last time. IF the owner hired them IMO this should no have been allowed to happen.

Good questions.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
This sounds like a multi-faceted issue.

A third party contractor to look over everything from the gutter size to the drainage slope to landscape should be brought in and to give a written report.

It sounds like repairs were done on one level, only to find out that the real issues were on a deeper level.

ToniW (North Carolina)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 04/02/2012 7:17 AM
Just one quick question who hired the contractor to perform the work done?

And this contractor decided it was a good idea to provide this unit owner with letters assigning blame to the HOA?

IF the HOA hired them this would be the last time. IF the owner hired them IMO this should no have been allowed to happen.

The contractor who did the large scale grading work was hired by the HOA. This issue now involves a general contractor that the owner hired to do some work on the interior of his unit, as well as install a trellis (HOA approved) at the side of his stoop. I believe the issue with water getting on the front stoop and into the door frame came up as the trellis was being installed.

No formal complaint has been made yet and I have not seen any 'letters' - just the owner saying that he either has or can get them from the contractor.

ToniW (North Carolina)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 04/02/2012 7:25 AM
This sounds like a multi-faceted issue.

A third party contractor to look over everything from the gutter size to the drainage slope to landscape should be brought in and to give a written report.

It sounds like repairs were done on one level, only to find out that the real issues were on a deeper level.


yes, and everyone's replies just reinforces that!
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Toni:

Sounds to me like you have a real hand full to deal with.
One who thinks the HOA is a make a wish foundation and THEIR issues are the only ones that matter.

So the owner has a contractor who will swear to anything. IMO just hot air from a big mouth.

The Board's job is(IMO)to make decisions that serve the best interest of the entire property. NOT cater to the demands and threats made by your described squeaky wheel. The more you give this type of person the more they will require.

Most Board's have to set some priorities as to where their money should be spend and why. Sounds like this individual has goten more than their fair share but they will certainly take more.

Every property has them part of the Board's job is to deal wih them.
An insurance claims rep. shouldn't be taken as a serious threat. Just saying...........

People threaten others with that which scares THEM the most. Many folks make threats about lawyers and lawsuits. Most are empty threats.

Good luck... Where does the rest of your Board stand on this?

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