Can we

Started by WilliamB13 • 12 replies • 1654 views

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WilliamB13 (Florida)
Posts: 14

Posted:

We are a 20 unit townhouse HOA in South Florida. We have two units that have been abandoned and empty for two years and one th;at is in Bankruptcy. Can we do any cleaning, repairing on these units ??
Thankyou

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Simple answer "NO". That is a BIG "NO". What your HOA needs to do is get into investigative mode to find out who owns these units and if they are indeed in bank foreclosure. Your HOA should have had liens filed on these properties before they enter foreclosure or it will be too late entirely. You can find this information out by going to the Tax Assessor's office to find out who was last to own the property. The bank could own them now which they still would have to pay the dues on the property if they indeed own them.

Your HOA does NOT own this property nor do they own the rights to it. So it would be VERY illegal for your HOA to rent out these homes without title or entitlement. What if the property was sold at bank auction while your HOA was renting these out? Your HOA could face a HUGE lawsuit from the renter and the new buyer. Not to mention the bank may step in...

Do some homework and do this the legal way. The HOA does NOT want to own this property overall. It's best to try to find the best option to unload them onto new buyers. Believe me, a HOA does NOT want the responsiblity of owning a home or renting one out. It's NOT a money making proposition as it may sound. If anything, it drains the HOA's funds even more.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

William,

If a neighbor wants to keep the grass mowed, that's one thing.

If an Association wants to incur expenses to clean,paint and repair a home there are very specific legal procedures that must be followed first and I would strongly suggest the Association contact an attorney to find out what those steps are.

Technically, even for the neighbor who just wants to keep that front yard mowed, anyone stepping onto the property to does work would be considered a trespasser. Our attorney even recommended to us that anyone performing an annual inspection of the property for the Association should go no farther than the sidewalks (which are considered common area).

Hope this helps,

Tim

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Tim

Most docs I am familiar with have a clause that does allow the HOA to take action if the home is not maintained to HOA standards. They also say the homeowner can be billed for the work.

We had one neighbor that did a walk away in our HOA. The BOD did authorize our common area landscape company to do basic lawn maintenance on the place. We also had our clubhouse power washing company power wash the house. We sent the bill to the owner. Granted we never got paid but we considered it our right and obligation to keep the place looking good.

In summary, I believe most docs do allow the association to maintain the exterior of the home.

John

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

WilliamB13,

You wrote that you are a HOA. Just to clarify – does that mean that you are not a Condominium?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

William

You say 20 townhouses thus I would assumes one landscape company doing all landscaping so the empty units would not look any different from the outside then any other unit. Also I assume the association is responsible for outside unit maintenance so again, no appearance difference.

So where is the need for the association to cleanup anything?

Most association docs allow for access to a unit (even a private home) if a safety issue and they are unable to locate the owner. Like I live in an adjoining townhouse and I "think" I hear water running, bad smell, etc.

Thanks

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Common area needs defined . In our HOA you owned the lot the house sits on and everything else around it was common area. An owner could have "Exclusive use" to that area around the home but it was common area that ALL the owners shared in ownership. That allowed us to continue to provide lawncare and property access without trespassing.

It is a shock to some people to find out this if that is the setup. So never assume the property surrounding your home is all of yours. You may just have exclusive use to it...

Former HOA President

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

William it would certainly help if you gave some idea of what your cleaning and maintenance work would include.

Yard work around the structure I would think would be little problem.

I reside in a two story condo community. One unit of ours is in limbo foreclosure the owner is gone but the bank won't pursue the foreclosure.

In the Winter we the Board (ME) decided to enter the unit and make arrangments to have heat in the unit for the Winter to avoid frozen pipes and damage to the unkit below. This was covered by the Board.

We have done this for 2 years now. So IMO you do what you beleive is right and serves the property including the appearance.

But tough to say when you don't give specifics as to what you would like done. IMO as litle as poosible to keep any costs as low as possible.

Good luck.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 03/24/2012 11:23 AM
Tim

Most docs I am familiar with have a clause that does allow the HOA to take action if the home is not maintained to HOA standards. They also say the homeowner can be billed for the work.

We have that same language. However, we were advised that there are certain procedures you must do first before you may enter the property and the Association shouldn't enter the property to perform repairs unless it's a life threatening issue without court approval.

If you think about it, it makes sense. First the Association takes the steps in their enforcement policy. Typically, this includes legal action (if it's escalated that far). Then with the courts approval, the Association may enter the property to perform the repairs.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I entered an abandoned property in our HOA. The very one we foreclosed on. A neighbor had a key somehow. I entered because the electricity was off and a pipe burst. Someone turned the water off at the street but it was too late for the inside of the house. Must have easily 10K worth of damage. All we could do is make sure no more damage occurred and locked the place up. Notifying the bank who owned might have been the only other step we could have taken. Although the bank most likely won't do anything.

It's not a good idea to enter the property and touch anything. It's legally NOT the HOA's property. We kept mowing the yard and turned off the water but it's all we could do. It may not be what everyone wants but it's the law...

Former HOA President

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WilliamB13 on 03/24/2012 9:20 AM
We are a 20 unit townhouse HOA in South Florida. We have two units that have been abandoned and empty for two years and one that is in Bankruptcy. Can we do any cleaning, repairing on these units ??
Thankyou

William:

Having looked at quite a number of foreclosure properties over the last two years, I assume that the problem is that the former occupants left piles of trash inside the unit and the blinds and/or window curtains are either in tatters or missing completely. I assume that your intention is to enter the units, remove the trash and/or cover the windows from inside with new blinds or curtains.

If your documents specifically allow the association to enter the units, then follow whatever procedure is prescribed for doing so. If your documents do not give your association that specific authority, then I would post a notice on every door of the three units stating that the association will enter the units at a specific time and date (48 hours is reasonable) and further stating what work you intend to perform. Hire a locksmith to pick the locks and enter at the time stated on the notice. Yes, it may be trespassing, but only the owner can file a complaint and since he is not around you have little to worry about.

Initially I thought the the unit in bankruptcy may be a little more of a problem, but if the former owner has moved out then title has most likely reverted to the lender.

Keep in mind that you are unlikely to ever recover any money you spend on this adventure so do no more than necessary to remedy the visual blight.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi William:

My personal opinion is if the repairs are items for which the association is responsible per the governing documents, then yes. If the repairs are items that are owner obligations, then potentially no.

Association documents generally for condo or townhomes will have provisions to allow entering for usually “emergency” type situations such as broken water pipe, etc. To potentially enter for non-emergency situations … I agree with Tim and his association attorney because it could open doors for someone to claim trespassing. You need to have a very valid reason to trespass. If someone took you to court and you were asked “why were you trespassing?” Would your documents back up the situation with a valid reason?

As others have asked what items are you looking to clean or repair?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

A charge of trespassing would be to your benefit since it would require the owner(s) to identify themselves. Not only would you have the opportunity to grill them under oath as to why they have trashed your neighborhood, you will also have the opportunity to present them with a bill for several years worth of assessments plus the costs of cleaning up their mess.

Even if there was a "no trespassing" sign on the property, you cannot be convicted of criminal trespass without the property owner's testimony. The police have no authority to decide for the owner who is and who is not allowed on the premises. No one other than the owner (or his agent) may bring a civil lawsuit for trespass.

What it all gets down to is whether the 17 owners in good standing are going to allow the three deadbeats to ruin their property values by turning your complex into a slum.

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