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KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
I could use some assistance on how to proceed and would appreciate and input/feedback.
Our HOA Board approved the use of common element property for community vegetable garden 3 years ago.I was on the board at the time, serving in my first month and am a community gardener. Some issues have risen recently about garden plots, sub-division and expansion. I reviewed HOA docs and realized that board had made an error in authorizing division, partition, re-allocation of land use on common property and that per covenants and state laws, we should have had a full membership vote. Seems like fix would simly be to put forth a community vote NOW and proceed with expansion if approval is given by membership? Does this seem like the way to go? Am I missing anything? Do we need to amend covnenants as well?

Also, can land plots be specifically allotted to each owner in equal parts, do they have to be equal and/or should entire plot be one with everyone sharing? Does it make a difference?

Thanks for your time.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If this property is off the beaten path and just sitting there, then the board could decide that it be purposed as a community garden. If any homeowner objects, due to vision or people in and out of the area, then that should tell you this is too complicated to do. The board could hold hearings on it to listen to concerns. (I, personally, would not want this next to my property)

If approved, I would determine the number of people who even would be interested in this project.

Divide the land into available plots and let whomever sign up for them.

First, you need to set up a commmitte to oversee this and put some regulations in place (fences? use of fertilizers? arbors? weeding? pathways? harvesting and cleanup?)

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Sorry - I did not read your post carefully.

What do you mean by "expansion?"
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
The land is open space and unmanaged (not mown). It is directly behind all the units (14). You can hear the tillers and workers in garden & easliy visible. There is a community path along it the all neighborhood uses.

It may have been considered at one point for further condos, so it is a good size area.

By expansion, I mean - We, 2 unit owners and I have been working on the plot for the last 3 years approx. 25 x 25 feet and we have all shared the veggies as equally as possible. We are now discussing dividing this plot into separate individual plots. But we also have a more robust interest in the community garden from several other people totaling 7 in all. So more land would be needed to accomadate them and gardens they may like to establish. AS of right now we do not have anything in writing regarding community garden and how much land is available for it. We have meeting minutes somewhere (from 3 yrs. ago) where owner asked and permission was given by board. Also, no notice is given annually of gardens availablity to all members or described any where as part of the HOA. I feel we can do better in informing the community.

Does that help clarify?

My personal opinion would be that all owners of property should at least be able voice/vote on the issue since Docs say no land partition w/o 2/3 consent.
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Susan, I also agree a formal committee be set up to look at issues of water usage, insurance, accessibility for handicap to participate, rules and regs., fees, (no MJ) and so forth. Thanks for your response.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
KP1....here is my take on the situation. If the land is not currently being used for anything then I don't see anything wrong with what you have done per say. Furthermore at this point if there is no plans for the area and the folks participating in the "community garden" want to have individuals plots I don't see any reason to proceed with anything more formal as long as you have the following understanding:

1. their "plot" is year to year based on involvements from other unit owners and could change in size and location.
2. at any given time the HOA can designate a higher purpose for the land and their "plot" could be revoked.

I personally would operate under a handshake agreement and not go any further. However, depending on the demographic of your neighborhood if you feel it is necessary to make it all legal then I would go ahead. People have gotten into peeing matchings over things a lot more trivial than this.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Our bylaws say that homeowners cannot use any commons area for personal use.

Now our board is considering a lottery to allow some homeowners to use canal-edge property (owned by the HOA and running along a street) for boat docks and use of the canal.

I reminded them of the bylaw. It will be interesting to see what they plan to do.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
I'd get everything in writing and take the vote if a vote is required by the full membership for a capital gain.

We had a community garden and had rosemary, tomatoes and squash. However, when a new board came in they decided two things: 1. They wanted a lawn. 2. They wanted us to pay for it.

Although the wife of one of the board members was on the board that made the decision, she was the secretary and the president of that board and she conveniently forgot that the board had made that decision. The board could not find the minutes. Luckily we had the newsletter that announced it.

Get everything in writing! It just takes one person to object and things can go really bad really fast.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Its not much of a "community garden" if no one is sharing.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi KP:

I agree with Steve in that the property is “common element” in which all owners are suppose to have equal access, enjoyment, and sharing. Also, when you change a use potentially requires in many instances member vote. Per CO State Statutes the definition states:

(5) "Common elements" means:

(a) In a condominium or cooperative, all portions of the condominium or cooperative other than the units; and

(b) In a planned community, any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a unit.
Now the potential issues you run into is that everyone is suppose to pay equally to maintain the “common elements”; therefore, who is paying for the irrigation, fertilizer, seeds, etc.? I have been racking my brain on this and maybe have an idea for making it potentially equal to an extent:

1. Make sure the insurance will cover volunteers working the community garden. Last thing you want is for someone to be accidentally injured and the HOA sued.

2. Insure the majority of owners agree to the “use” of common area property.

3. Have the entire community garden as an HOA “common element” regarding costs.

4. Most everyone purchases vegetables when they grocery shop and most would prefer fresh; therefore, when vegetables are harvested those who are interested in purchasing can pay a fee to purchase the “fresh” vegetables, and said fee will then go back to the HOA to help defray the expenses regarding the “common elements”.

5. Any of the vegetables harvested and “not purchased” by homeowners” will be divided between any individuals who volunteered their time and efforts to maintain the “common element” by the amount of time provided.

Potentially what this may allow is that the “common element” community garden can pay for itself in the long run because on one side you have those who want fresh vegetables pay a minimal fee vs. those who do not want fresh vegetables having reduced or no cost of maintaining the common property.

Just a thought which you might run past your HOA attorney to insure is feasible idea.

KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
I appreciate all the feed back. I did speak to an Real Estate atty. (I work at a law firm) and she said the best thing to do from a legal stand point is put it to a community vote. I think this is the ethical thing to do as well. I forgot to ask her this: If it is voted upon and the common property is designated for community garden do we need to make on official amendment to the governing docs?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi KP:

Do your governing docs just refer to the space as "common area" or do the documents note a specific "use" for the property?
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Great question Janet. I don't know and believe we will need to get the plat out to see how it is officially designated. Key to what should be done. Thanks.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
You are most welcome and good luck! Let us know how it goes as it may help others in a similar situation.
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Follow up. Per covenants and plat this land is a General Common Element.
FrankM7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
KP1, I feel you are on the right track by using existing common land for the benefit of those in your community who want to participate year-by-year. With food costs rising and quality controls on vegetables being questionable, fresh home-grown gardening is certainly preferable. It would be a shame to have available land and not use it.

Please keep us informed concerning details which may be encountered if we would use some of our available land too, such as fences/dividers, water supply, sharing efforts, individual and association costs, seasonal cultivating, monitoring, and record keeping.

KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
I am still gathering info on this to assist the Board in creating our community gardern. CCIOA (Co. State)laws specifically state that "a unit owner may not change the appearance of the common elements without permission from the association". 2 questions : can this be applied also to "unit owners (plural)? AND is not the association ALL the members, not the Board?
2. Do we need to follow Fair Housing Act of 1958 with respect to Making modifications for this General Common Element turned into Community Garden so that is is accessible to persons with disabilities?
3. CCIOA also says common elements are not subject to partitions. Does this mean gardens cannot be fenced to prevent critters?
4. Our own docs say no common element can ever be made into a limited common element.
The common elements shall be owned in common by all of the owners of the units and shall remain undivided.
Each owner has non-exclusive right to use commom element in accordance with the purpose of element (this current CE has no purpose or has not ever been described as having a specific use)AND any such CE should not hinder or encroach upon the rights of other owners.
The association is responsible for the management, control of and all improvements of the common elements.
A 67% approval by vote is needed for "seeking to abandon, partition, subdivide, encumber, sell or transfer the common elements".

Anyone have any feed back on this? I just want to make this work within the framework of the laws and governing docs and obviously want to do it as simply as possible too. Thanks.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi KP:

Per your initial two questions with the simple answers:

(a) Can this be applied also to "unit owners (plural)? ,,, YES

(b) Is not the association ALL the members, not the Board? … YES

2. Individuals with disabilities need to have access to all common area elements. To choose otherwise can incur potential legal liability, if an individual takes offense and sues the HOA.

3. Partition in an HOA does not refer to fences it is discussing real property and it primarily would be noted as:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/partition

Partition statutes allow those who own property in common to sever their interests and take their individual share of the property.

4. The definition under CCIOA:

(19) "Limited common element" means a portion of the common elements allocated by the declaration or by operation of section 38-33.3-202 (1) (b) or (1) (d) for the exclusive use of one or more units but fewer than all of the units.

Therefore, the common area property potentially per your governing documents cannot be utilized for the exclusive use of just a few units and instead must benefit somehow all units.

You might read again the items I posted above in that the ideas possibly allow the garden, yet those who do not participate can benefit potentially with hopefully reduced fees if it can become somewhat self-sufficient.

KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Thanks for the feedback Janet. I had thought the same about the "partitions" as well.

Am I mis-reading all these items? They lead me to believe this is a membership decision rather than a board decision. Any thoughts about that? Are you a sitting board member? If so how would you proceed?
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I don't see where unused land is being re-allocated and could question the implied definition of partitioning and division of land, which could reflect not community usage but permanent and legally-binding "deed stuff." You're not requesting giving the garden away to a local authority or creating some conservation easement. Good inquiry.

However, if residents were disturbed by a garden, I would place it to a vote anyway.
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Thanks for the reply Kelly. I don't think the full membership has been asked whether they support or don't support a community garden or even know it's up for discussion. Sort of why I am trying to iron out wrinkles. I'd rather know about negative feedback prior to implementing program for community garden (if there is any). Also, getting the sense that the board does not want to develop a plan or committee to over see the garden and would just prefer to let those who wish to garden take and use the general common element property as personal garden space - almost as if it were a limited common element assigned to specific person or unit. Thoughts?

Actually our docs specifically say a GCE can not be changed to a LCE.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:

A couple of observations:

1. The negative feedback is worth as much as the positive feedback.

2. The board is within its right, as individual volunteers, to not desire a new amenity that, on the surface, requires daily maintenance from their standpoint. It strains volunteerism to oversee a property and then add to it.

3. A community garden could work well under a responsible Community Garden Board that answers to the board of directors, with the board of directors having complete final decision making authority where warranted. The board of directors represents all property owners and use of land. The garden board represents and manages the garden participants.

4. I would not recommend any formal or informal division of the garden into temporary individual-controlled plots. There's no way all participants will ultimately dedicate the time needed to keep that garden looking top notch and attractive. However, they'd "control" their plot and could allow it to decay. A community approach, with a group dedicated to the whole garden, could prevent this under a harvest sharing model of food distribution.

5. No HOA funding should support the community garden unless every property shares in the harvest regardless of physical contribution to the garden.

6. Your garden is a GCE as access is open to all when the time window for preparation opens in the Spring. Only when work begins and money is collected that the community "investors" limit access, but not conforming it to LCE standards in my opinion.

7. The garden should be easily destroyable by a small bulldozer (Bobcat) or tractor within an hour or two. Easy cleanup if it becomes overwhelming and the ultimate guarantee against creating a permanent eyesore.

A project like this could a tremendously wonderful neighborhood addition or a nightmare. I can't see any in-between scenario.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
One of the problems we faced in our community garden startup is that the board wasn't willing to pay for pest control and I don't just mean in the garden area, but in all the areas.

We had a severe black widow problem and the communal dumpster hadn't been cleaned or changed out for three years and was mostly the source of the problem.

I complained about the spiders, but the board refused for over a year to attend to the problem. We had a lovely little cherry blossom tree that was covered with spider webs. Most of the plants had to de-spidered weekly. The covered parking overhead lighting had spider webs stretching about a foot out on each side.

The problem with pesticide is, of course, can you eat what has been sprayed. So if your gardener/landscaper or maintenance person is using something that can't be used on edible plants, you'd need to now and work something out. You also have to consider if the spraying will kill off bees!
KP1 (Colorado)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Should/Can the board make this decision w/o full community input?
Can a community garden operate w/o a garden committee that reports to board?
Can a community garden be a free for all? "There's the land do what ever you want". This is currently the premise we are operating on.
I believe lack of board oversight is a substantial issue in moving forward. If they agree that the land can be used for gardening and designate it as such on their own authority w/o voiced opinion from all owners, it then requires for the board to participate in the garden management in the form of some type of committee. If the board does not want to hassle with it, they can refuse permission to garden. That seems to be it in a nutshell. (I agree with the premise that board can refuse request w/o community input, since it would mean more active roll on their part).
If board says no, to much work on our part to over see, what should happen to the plot that was/is operating now, that board agreed to let homeowner establish 3 years ago?
Another issue: Garden accessability for the physically challenged. Laws that need to be followed?

Thanks for the feedback.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:

"Should/Can the board make this decision w/o full community input?"

Sure, why couldn't the board decide the issue? Whether the board enjoys general trust of the community determines
much in making decisions. "Full community input" is difficult to achieve in an era of neighborhood apathy.

"Can a community garden operate w/o a garden committee that reports to board?"

It would be impossible and improper for the board of directors to cede final control over any common area. But,
the board shouldn't meddle as that ruins community spirit.

"Can a community garden be a free for all? "

No. Humans are not altruistic. Wildlife that dine are the only form of freeloader one should expect.

A board of directors can create an ad hoc committee charged with the community garden maintenance without any directors being forced, involuntarily, to participate. At day's end, the property owners own, equally, all common areas. Being elected to the board doesn't inherently create a caste system where some residents may participate and others not, based on board status. The board should regulate only if there are citizens willing to create an attractive amenity.

Yes, the board can regulate the creation of the garden itself.

"If board says no, to much work on our part to over see, what should happen to the plot that was/is operating now, that board agreed to let homeowner establish 3 years ago?"

My thinking is that no home owner should enjoy a garden plot at the expense of other willing gardeners. A decision must be made but I'd hope the board would value volunteerism and community spirit.

"Garden accessability for the physically challenged. Laws that need to be followed?"

I would not let access stop the progress. Meet each challenge as it arises. Volunteers should be willing to assist someone who'd like a small garden, will invest in it but cannot do the labor. That's the spirit of the whole idea. The quality of the volunteer makes this an issue or non-issue.

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