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DavidP1 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
We are currently exploring different methods to verify if a home is owner occupied. The most obvious method would be to find some software that runs a check against Electricity and other utilities like cable and the County property tax records. Does anyone know of a software or method that works well?
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Is this to explore for rentals? Have you read the current and past posts about controlling rentals? Harold
DavidP1 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
yes. we wish to do an audit of the entire development.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
If you can look up the properties on a county website or in person you can see if their mailing address matches the street address. It's not foolproof, but it's a start.

Ron
SC
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
I would also love to know if there's an effective way to ascertain this information. County land records only show the absentee owner about 1/2 of the time. There's really no requirement that the owner notify the PM or the County and update this information. With some condo's, there's a requirement that the owner keep a copy of the lease on file with the PM, but with the T/H's and single family homes, how would you force the owner to disclose this information in a timely manner? Other than requiring the renter to provide a copy of a lease when they apply for pool passes or parking passes, it's almost impossible to motivate the owner to keep everyone updated. After a while, we have realized that there are far more rentals in the community than we originally thought. If anyone has an effective way of identifying the rentals, I would certainly like to know how.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Your making this waaay more complicated than it needs to be. Two things are certain in life: Death and Taxes!!! So your best bet for finding out the owner of a lot, is to provide that lot number to the county Tax assessor's office. Just call them up and ask who owns such and such lot. They can provide a name but NOT any addresses other than the one in the HOA property.
There's plenty of software after that on the internet that you may purchase after you get names of the owners.
Mind you that the tax records may not be daily accurate. Their records may be behind if a recent sale has happened. It's just a good idea to review atleast once a year true ownership.
Another good source, is what are the names on the checks for the dues payments? The homeowner is responsible for paying the dues. If the homeowner is using the property as rental, most likely they are still paying the dues since they are a tax deduction. The addresses on the checks may give the homeowner's true address. Just don't depend on this information as being accurate.
By the way, read the other posts about limiting rental property. Most likely it is illegal for a HOA/Condo to limit rental property. The decision lays with the mortgage companies on if property can be rental or not.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
Posted By LanceT on 01/27/2007 2:16 AM

...So your best bet for finding out the owner of a lot, is to provide that lot number to the county Tax assessor's office. Just call them up and ask who owns such and such lot. They can provide a name but NOT any addresses other than the one in the HOA property.
There's plenty of software after that on the internet that you may purchase after you get names of the owners...


Lance, what is the name of some of this software and what does it do?
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Lance, with all due respect, it's not that simple - I can tell you from experience that in many cases, county land records do not reflect the name and address of the absentee owner when the property has been rented. The owner is not obliged or required to call the county with their updated absentee address. Then as far as the checks are concerned, many HOA's have the assessment fees sent to a bank lockbox. The PM never sees the checks. I suppose if you're working with a very small HOA, they may not be using a lockbox.

I'm not sure what the real goal is here, but simple reason that I would like this information is purely to improve communications between the HOA and the tenants. Often times, HOA correspondance is sent to the owner at the renter's address and unless there is a postal forwarding order. So, if the renter is violating ARB's or covenants and a letter is sent to the owner, the letter wind up in the custody of the tenant and who knows when the landlord will get the letter. We've had cases where the owner was assessed fines, because they never responded to the certified letters and the reason was because the tenant received the certified notices and letters, but they never forwarded these documents to the owner.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
There's no specific name I can think of. Most of it shows up with those annoying pop-ups saying "Find your classmates for $19.99". You can just type in at the search bar what type search information you want to find.
Another cheaper solution... Go to MSN or another search engine that provides "Yellow pages" or "White pages". Simply go to the "White pages" icon on MSN and type in the information to search for individuals. Even if you just have the phone number, you may be able to do a reverse number search.
Buying the software may just enable you to find information that is NOT available on the internet or phone book. Most addresses and phone numbers are available free of charge on the internet. (Even your own!)

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
MIKES1: Owners are ALWAYS the ones on tax records. Renters don't own the property and are NOT responsible for paying property taxes. So why would their information be on any tax records?
Like I typed before. Tax records aren't always accurate for the day. Sometimes takes a few months after a sale to be updated. So you have to keep an eye on what property sales and wait an appropriate time to check.
If you are on the board or are an officer of the HOA you clearly due have access to the checks being written. There are no reasons why the president or treasurer can't go to the MC office and request to view the checks if available. Those are HOA records.
Money collected by the HOA should NEVER EVER be an area where just a member can call up and find out what OTHER members owe. Members should ONLY be told about their account and their account ONLY. It will be the HOA board that is to handle placing liens or doing foreclosure if need be. NOT an individual members. That just creates anger, hostility, and individual members do NOT have the power to enforce Liens/foreclosure ONLY the ENTIRE group of the HOA does.
It can be frustrating to know people aren't paying. However, it's none of your business as long as the HOA board you all elected does their job and pursues collections properly.
Example: You arrange a vacation with 3 friends. You ALL agree to pay $500 each. The vacation starts and not everyone has paid yet. Everything is put on YOUR credit cards and to be sorted out later. However, one friend loses a job and can't pay. One pays only $250 because they lost gambling. Do you tell your other 2 friends that paid that others didn't? Or do you think they would take matters into their own hands and beat them up? It's the SAME with a HOA. The $500 are the HOA dues and the amount owed are a private matters.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Lance - Will all due respect, you missed my point here. I never said that renters are listed with the county records. I just wanted to point out that among the 40 renter properties in our community, only about 1/2 of them accurately list the property as having an abseentee owner and the county was never provided the absentee owner address whenever the owner converted the property to a rental. I know that it takes a while to update tax records and I realize that the records are not that accurate. IE - We have one property that has been rented for over 10 years and yet today that county tax records still show the property as been owner occcupied. Secondly, since most HOA's use bank lockboxes, No one on the Board, or even the Property manager sees the assessment checks. As with many HOA's, we use a banking lockbox for remittances. Using a lockbox for HOA assessment payment shortens the amount of time necessary to process your customers' payments, by having your bank open the payment envelopes and deposit them directly into your bank account. Since the payment processing is done at the bank, your customers' payments are received and deposited all within the same day. We never see the checks and the lockbox service is not in a position to verify addresses on the check or confirm the return address on the envelope.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
How are your dues paid? How are notices mailed out? Pay attention to who pays the dues and what the return address is. If an audit is that important you can always pay on the internet to look people up. Short of going door to door to me the simplest thing would be to pay attention to where notices are mailed and the name and address of the dues payer.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
...... I can tell you from experience that in many cases, county land records do not reflect the name and address of the absentee owner when the property has been rented............


The county land records should list the owner's mailing address. That's where the property tax bill is sent. It's not foolproof though, the mailing address might be a PO box and you don't know if the owner lives there or somewhere else, and the owner may have made arrangements with the tennant (especially if it's a relative) to accept the tax bill and forward it.

Ron
SC
CynthiaD (Nevada)
Posts: 20
Posted:
David:
Why is this important for you to know the occupant's name? What do you think of EMERGENCIES and SECURITYthis important areas to consider?

In the event of AN EMERGENCY knowing who all is on the property may become important. Terrorists attacks, disatrous weather, fire. However, watch federal guidelines about kids, familial status, ADA. But let's assume a tenat WAS disabled and YOU DIDN't CONTACT ME? Who would sue who? Check your docs, state, or ask your attorney and/or your insurance agent.

But, for SECURITY reasons, most owners can appreciate it would be nice to know who all is supposed to be in their community, including all authorized visitors.
This is the approach I would use. If you're in a gated community it's realatively easy as one way to tackle this is REAR VIEW MIRROR HANGERS or WINDSHIELD TAGS--ISSUED ONLY ONE TO THE OWNER. If and owner needs more (and they would if they don't live there and someone else does, they should request more. They can get more, have the OWNER fill out, SIGNED by the owner as to whom needs them (request all applicable applicable information needed in the event of an emergency names, phone numbers).

The tag thing would not work well when people park in their garages or if you are not gated and not on privately owned streets. Or if there is anyone with the time to enter it all into the system continuously updating and to monitor this.

You would first need to ask an attorney if it is not clear in your dos what you can and cannot do. Maybe place on the Agenda AT AN OPEN MEETING and get some feedback from your community before making a decision. Check your CC&R's & Bylaws power of the Board to adopt resoution for certain rules. Check any section insurance, mortgage FHA, tenant leasing restrictions, e.g., not less than 30 days lease (I've seen some that say 6 months-so owners should know what is already required if they lease their property). Some even say must have a VALID lease (one that's not expired). In that case, ask them to submit or have their property manager who is authorized by the owner to act on owner's behalf. Get that in writing too about the property manager. I would give anybody anything unless I have WRITTEN permission from the owners.

If it turns out with legal counsel and is approved by the Board to adopt this resolution, mail the notice and the reason SECURITY AND EMERGENCY to ALL address and ALL property addresses and put IMPORTANT ON IT. Include a form and a deadline to return (say 30 days). NOTE it is strictly voluntary by owners and stress this information is requested for the "sole purpose in the EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY or SECURITY is compromised." Most people would respond. Then all you have lest to up[date is the ones that didn't.

When an owner gets a notice saying you only get one tag likely this will cause phone calls. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN. Ask them to please return SIGNED form via mail, fax, or in person to the managment office (Board)

Telephone numbers are important. Write them down when someone calls--
every time and check your system. Ask routinely what's your current mailing address before giving answers. Don't change addresses that are not in writing.

Some documents DO say something about tenants, length of stay, may even require a copy of a valid lease. Read all sections that may apply to this.

Common sense says owners should notify the HOA of a change of address. Some don't do it and they claim I never got it. It is THEIR responsiblity from the get go and from the welcome letter on when new to the community.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
David probably the only way you're going to know for sure is to canvas your development house by house. Or you could do a mailing to each home requesting they fill out an emergency contact sheet, and contact the homes that do not respond. The problem with relying on the tax bill is that many are paid out of the owner's mortgage escrow account. The county auditor would send a duplicate to the residence but a tenant could hold it and give to the owner. I live in a condo HOA not single family so it is easier to find out who rents and we have policies in place to deal with it. No lease shorter than six months and with a change in Ohio's law we added this to the Declarations:

Q. Information to be provided. Within thirty (30) days after a Unit Owner obtains a condominium ownership interest or within thirty (30) days of the date of recording of this Amendment, the Unit Owner shall provide the following information in writing to the Association through the Board of Directors:

(a) The home address, home and business mailing addresses, and the home and business telephone numbers of the Unit Owner and all occupants of the Unit;

(b) The name, business address, and business telephone number of any person who manages the Owner’s Unit as an agent of that Owner.

Within thirty (30) days after a change in any information required to be provided herein, a Unit Owner shall notify the Association, through the Board of Directors, in writing of the change. When the Board of Directors requests, a Unit Owner shall verify or update the information.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
Glen, You're absolutely right. You've finally managed to get my point across, exactly. Since I have a condo investment property, I know that we have the same policies regarding investment properties, and the PM always has a copy of the tenant lease on file. On the other hand, the HOA for the townhome community where I live doesn't have policies in place nor do they are require a copy of the lease agreement. Some folks in this post seem to think that there is a conspiracy or privacy issues here, but it's pure and simple... We need to improve communication channels between the HOA, the renter, and the absentee owner, since the renter is bound to comply with the HOA documents and the owner needs to know when there is a problem with the tenant.

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