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BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145
Posted:
The Sec/ Treasurer of our HOA hired an attorney to examine the CCR's that was done and opinion rendered The Sec./Treasurer paid a $450.00 (retainer) for this service do we have the right to see a copy of this agreement (retainer agreement)?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi BB:

Potentially yes depending on your documents and state statutes. Did you ask and were denied?

BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145
Posted:
(Depending on our documents) please explain. There is nothing in our doc's that allows the sec/treas. to hire anyone let alone pay a retainer/make a contract without membership approval.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
BB,

The way you tell it, you have no need for a board of directors or officers since the members have to approve every expenditure or action.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi BB:

As an example under your states Condominium statutes the following is stated:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4480030103.HTM

Executive board members and officers.

448.3-103. 1. Except as provided in the declaration, the bylaws, subsection 2 of this section, or other provisions of sections 448.1-101 to 448.4-120, the executive board may act in all instances on behalf of the association. In the performance of their duties, the officers and members of the executive board are required to exercise (1) if appointed by the declarant, the care required of fiduciaries of the unit owners, and (2) if elected by the unit owners, ordinary and reasonable care.
2. The executive board may not act on behalf of the association to amend the declaration, to terminate the condominium, or to elect members of the executive board or determine the qualifications, powers and duties, or terms of office of executive board members, but the executive board may fill vacancies in its membership for the unexpired portion of any term.

Now unless your governing documents PROHIBIT an action and as long as the board is not violating state laws by amending the declaration, terminate the association, or elect members to the board on their own … they get to act in all other instances on behalf of the association.

Do your documents specifically state that the board cannot hire an attorney?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
The powers of your board of directors ("BOD") is derived in part from your community documents (CC&R's, Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, Rules & Regs, etc.) and in part from state law. State law is made up of statutes and common law (aka case law).

Generally, BOD's have broad powers to carry out the business of the association. Unless there is a provision in your community documents and/or state law to the contrary, the BOD is not required to seek the approval of the members for every action it takes. Democracy is wonderful but why elect a BOD if you have to have a membership vote to approve the purchase of a box of paper clips?

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
BB since Missouri doesn't have HOA laws you should look to the non-profit statutes, specifically:

355.456. Execution of contracts by officers.
355.821. Corporate records.
355.826. Member's inspection of records.
355.831. Scope of inspection right.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
BB

unless your documents state otherwise the attorney could have been hired by the board and yes unless the opinion and bill and all that is part of ongoing litigation you should be able to see it as a member. You are correct, unless your documents are unique the Sec/Treasurer could not hire someone on their own unless that refers to two people and you have a 3 person board.
BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145
Posted:
The doc's refer to what the officers can do (their job) as opposed to what they can't do. This was a decision made entirely by the Sec./Treas. This may be a little off the subject I do know there are no HOA laws in MO. does that mean we can pick and choose (Corp. law ) as opposed to our HOA Doc.'s ?
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
To find out what laws the HOA is subject to...you need a lawyer.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 03/08/2012 7:02 AM

Unless your documents are unique the Sec/Treasurer could not hire someone on their own unless that refers to two people and you have a 3 person board.

Brad,

Gotta disagree with you again. The purpose of having officers, such as a Secretary/Treasurer, is to delegate to them the authority to operate the association on a day-to-day basis. Once he has been given that authority, it is up to that officer to do the job as he sees fit within any limits set by the board, community documents, or the law. Once the authority to act has been granted, the officer should have no reason to seek the board's permission to do what the board has already authorized him to do. The officers normally serve at the pleasure of the board and may be removed with or without cause.

There would be no reason to have officers if every action taken by one has to be approved by the board. Without officers authorized to act on behalf of the association, you would have 6-hour board meetings debating whether to purchase a box of paper clips, and if so, whether to buy it from Staples or Office Max.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 03/08/2012 11:07 AM
Posted By BradP on 03/08/2012 7:02 AM

Unless your documents are unique the Sec/Treasurer could not hire someone on their own unless that refers to two people and you have a 3 person board.


Brad,

Gotta disagree with you again. The purpose of having officers, such as a Secretary/Treasurer, is to delegate to them the authority to operate the association on a day-to-day basis. Once he has been given that authority, it is up to that officer to do the job as he sees fit within any limits set by the board, community documents, or the law. Once the authority to act has been granted, the officer should have no reason to seek the board's permission to do what the board has already authorized him to do. The officers normally serve at the pleasure of the board and may be removed with or without cause.

There would be no reason to have officers if every action taken by one has to be approved by the board. Without officers authorized to act on behalf of the association, you would have 6-hour board meetings debating whether to purchase a box of paper clips, and if so, whether to buy it from Staples or Office Max.


Larry...would disagree right back at you...not knowing what he is referring to, if he is referring to a Secretary/Treasurer as two different people/positions and the board is only 3 people total then those two people (secretary/treasurer) can hire an attorney if they form the majority of the board in that decision and it is done at a meeting.

Hiring an attorney and deciding to spend money on them is a huge difference than buying paperclips or office supplies. You may have budgeted for attorney's fees but actually hiring one is a process that should not be unilaterally.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BB5 on 03/08/2012 7:44 AM
The doc's refer to what the officers can do (their job) as opposed to what they can't do. This was a decision made entirely by the Sec./Treas. This may be a little off the subject I do know there are no HOA laws in MO. does that mean we can pick and choose (Corp. law ) as opposed to our HOA Doc.'s ?

NO, you would need to follow both however in the case that there was some controversy the state non-profit laws would prevail unless there was wording in the statute deferring to the documents.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
ALL

"""""Many service professionals give clients the option to work on a retainer basis, i.e., the client pays a fixed fee to cover a certain level of service. Sometimes this equates into an exact number of hours (usually at a discount, in exchange for the prepayment and commitment). Other times, it's to cover certain work, without having to track it hourly.""""

The above said and even if the money spent was within the guidelinse/limits of the BOD, I think to be open/candid a general explanation of any spending above and beyond on routine is deserved.

The explanation might be we have done so to prepare to do legal battle with what we perceive to be some cantankerous association members...like BB...LOL

Be open about it. Kill the rumors/discontent before it starts.

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