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GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
I am a unit owner of a condo in Connecticut.The unit owners are being charged "charge backs". In the July 2010 common ownership act, it entitles the board to charge these fees. I was just recently told that the board is acting illegally charging the owners these bills. Our association never had an amendment done to our by-laws entitling this board to enforce charge-backs.Is anyone familair with this process?

Thanks
Gary
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am unclear of what charge backs are. Can you give more information on that? Thanks.

Former HOA President
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
In the community I live in their are 228 condo's. When the furnace in one of the building's with say 8 units,needs service,the repair is builded back to the 8 unit owners. Another example, if the water heater in the building needed repair's the unit owners would be charged back for the repair.The unit owners feel the monthly condo fees paid should cover these costs.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Gary:

Actually what you are describing is the “limited common expense”. Items which service only a few units and who benefit from a service are the only units charged for the limited common area items they share.

The regular monthly condo fees are for all other expenses for the entire HOA and which everyone shares such as exterior maintenance, club house, pool maintenance, etc.

Your governing documents should address this under limited common expense and which items are to be considered as such.
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hello Janet:

I am aware they are limited common element's. But according a attorney, he stated that unless our by-laws have been amended, it is illegal to impose these limited common element charges.I am asking if others have had their by-laws amended in order to impose these charges.

thanks
Gary
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Gary:

Now I see … very interesting in that this is not the general rule in many other states regarding limited common elements. When you were discussing charge back I was looking at other areas of the statutes, as that term is more related to insurance.

Sec. 47-76. Allocation of profits and expenses.

(c) Except as provided otherwise by the condominium instruments, any expenses associated with the maintenance, repair, renovation, restoration or replacement of any limited common element shall be common expenses, provided no expenses for repairs or reconstruction of units which occur prior to the original sale of the unit by the declarant shall be considered as a common expense.

GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hi Janet:

How does your association treat the costs of limited common element?

Gary
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/06/2012 2:15 AM
Hi Gary:

Now I see … very interesting in that this is not the general rule in many other states regarding limited common elements. When you were discussing charge back I was looking at other areas of the statutes, as that term is more related to insurance.

Sec. 47-76. Allocation of profits and expenses.

(c) Except as provided otherwise by the condominium instruments, any expenses associated with the maintenance, repair, renovation, restoration or replacement of any limited common element shall be common expenses, provided no expenses for repairs or reconstruction of units which occur prior to the original sale of the unit by the declarant shall be considered as a common expense.


The section of law quoted (Sec. 47-76) is from Chapter 825, "Condominium Act" and no longer applies. Chapter 825 was replaced by Chapter 828, "Common Interest Ownership Act".

It's a common mistake.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Gary,

Per section Sec. 47-257
of Common Interest Ownership Act [emphasis added]:

" (c) To the extent required by the declaration: (1) Any common expense associated with the maintenance, repair or replacement of a limited common element shall be assessed against the units to which that limited common element is assigned, equally, or in any other proportion the declaration provides; (2) any common expense or portion thereof benefiting fewer than all of the units or their owners may be assessed exclusively against the units benefited; and (3) the costs of insurance shall be assessed in proportion to risk and the costs of utilities shall be assessed in proportion to usage."

Therefore, it appears your Association may charge only the individual owners of that building for the repairs.

As an FYI, here is link to the entire act:

Common Interest Ownership Act (whole act)

Gary, When was your Association's last reserve study completed?

Tim
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
As posted:

Per section Sec. 47-257
of Common Interest Ownership Act [emphasis added]:

(c) TO THE EXTENT required by the declaration:

(2) any common expense or portion thereof benefiting fewer than all of the units or their owners MAY BE ASSESSED exclusively against the units benefited;

The way I interpret, is that the Declaration governs.

So IMO GaryR5 needs to carefully read his Declaration (assume GaryR6 meant Declaration or CC&Rs, not Bylaws) to see IF assessing according to benefit is allowed.

A typical Declaration Paragraph that does not allow assessing by benefit might read:

The cost of maintenance, repair and replacement of these Limited Common Elements shall be the responsibility of the Association and shall NOT be charged to the Unit or Units exclusively benefited thereby.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Sounds like a special assessment limited to the unit owners who benefit. This is common. Check your docs, they will specify what the entire condo association is responsible for and what a building with 8 units is responsible for. ie; the entire association may be responsible for the roof, but not the furnace.

Either way you pay the same amount. If dues need to increase to cover the cost of every furnace repair, maintain, etc, it will be the same amount as dividing 1 building between 8 people.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Ellie,

I agree with you that the Declaration should govern unless it is silent on this topic or doesn't defer to another governing document (if you go by the OP's statement in the Bylaws).
If it is silent then per (1) of that section [emphasis added]:

" (c) To the extent required by the declaration: (1) Any common expense associated with the maintenance, repair or replacement of a limited common element shall be assessed against the units to which that limited common element is assigned, equally, or in any other proportion the declaration provides;

Therefore, if it is silent, or if the boiler is identified as a limited common element, the Association is required to charge only those units that are using it.

As you said, the OP needs to completely review their governing documents (and specifically the declaration) to see what it says.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 03/06/2012 2:58 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/06/2012 2:15 AM
Hi Gary:

Now I see … very interesting in that this is not the general rule in many other states regarding limited common elements. When you were discussing charge back I was looking at other areas of the statutes, as that term is more related to insurance.

Sec. 47-76. Allocation of profits and expenses.

(c) Except as provided otherwise by the condominium instruments, any expenses associated with the maintenance, repair, renovation, restoration or replacement of any limited common element shall be common expenses, provided no expenses for repairs or reconstruction of units which occur prior to the original sale of the unit by the declarant shall be considered as a common expense.


The section of law quoted (Sec. 47-76) is from Chapter 825, "Condominium Act" and no longer applies. Chapter 825 was replaced by Chapter 828, "Common Interest Ownership Act".

It's a common mistake.

Hi Bruce:

If Chapter 825 was repealed and replaced with Chapter 828 then why does the State still have it listed in their current code:

http://cga.ct.gov/current/pub/title47.htm

I want to make sure as have not found anything otherwise. Thank you!

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Gary:

Of our few family homes in various states only one has limited common elements which are charged to the units serviced by the element. I have found in reviewing numerous state statutes that generally those items are allocated to certain units which in turn pay the assessments for said allocation. An example is this section from CO statutes:

(1) Except for the limited common elements described in section 38-33.3-202 (1) (b) and (1) (d), the declaration shall specify to which unit or units each limited common element is allocated. That allocation may not be altered without the consent of the unit owners whose units are affected.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
TimB4,

Not disagreeing. But just pointing out that the OP posted “In the community I live in there are 228 condo's. When the furnace in one of the building's with say 8 units, needs service, the repair is billed back to the 8 unit owners.”

So as I interpret – fewer than all owner benefited - 8 out of 228 owners - so it is Section (c) 2 that applies more so than (c)1 – to the extent required by the declaration.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryR6 on 03/05/2012 11:22 PM
In the community I live in their are 228 condo's. When the furnace in one of the building's with say 8 units,needs service,the repair is builded back to the 8 unit owners. Another example, if the water heater in the building needed repair's the unit owners would be charged back for the repair.The unit owners feel the monthly condo fees paid should cover these costs.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you were told something that is incorrect (don't believe what everyone tells you unless they can back it up with reliable source data).

First, your monthly fees are not going to cover emergency repair or replacement costs UNLESS your board has had the foresight to put a little aside each month to cover such emergencies, such as into capital reserves or a contingency fund. Such funds are normally kept separate from day-to-day operating expenses.

Second, if the furnace or water heater dies, it has to be repaired or replaced. No bones about it. If the money has not been set aside in advance, then there is no money to pay for it unless there is a special assessment.

Third, what your board is doing does not sound to me like it's a violation of Connecticut law.

Fourth, even if your board does violate the Common Interest Ownership Act, what can you do? It's not a criminal act, so you can't call the police and have someone arrested. Your only recourse is to pursue the matter in civil court and that is going to cost you more than the special assessment to repair or replace a furnace or water heater.

The best thing you can do, in addition to paying the special assessment, is to encourage your board to increase the monthly fee enough so that some money can be set aside in a separate account to pay for future emergencies so there will be no need for a special assessment.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/06/2012 9:35 AM
Posted By BruceF1 on 03/06/2012 2:58 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/06/2012 2:15 AM
Hi Gary:

Now I see … very interesting in that this is not the general rule in many other states regarding limited common elements. When you were discussing charge back I was looking at other areas of the statutes, as that term is more related to insurance.

Sec. 47-76. Allocation of profits and expenses.

(c) Except as provided otherwise by the condominium instruments, any expenses associated with the maintenance, repair, renovation, restoration or replacement of any limited common element shall be common expenses, provided no expenses for repairs or reconstruction of units which occur prior to the original sale of the unit by the declarant shall be considered as a common expense.


The section of law quoted (Sec. 47-76) is from Chapter 825, "Condominium Act" and no longer applies. Chapter 825 was replaced by Chapter 828, "Common Interest Ownership Act".

It's a common mistake.

Hi Bruce:

If Chapter 825 was repealed and replaced with Chapter 828 then why does the State still have it listed in their current code:

http://cga.ct.gov/current/pub/title47.htm

I want to make sure as have not found anything otherwise. Thank you!


Janet,

That's a question you should ask our legislators.

Seriously, though, the answer is found in Chapter 828 itself:

"Sec. 47-214. Applicability of chapter and amendments thereto to common interest communities. Except as provided in section 47-216, the provisions of this chapter apply to all common interest communities created within this state on or after January 1, 1984. The provisions of chapter 825 do not apply to condominiums created on or after January 1, 1984. - - - - "

Other sections of Chapter 828 describe how Condominiums created prior 1/1/84 are affected. It depends on size, whether or not certain provisions of their declaration have been changed, etc.
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
JanetB2,

I agree finding CHAPTER 828 COMMON INTEREST OWNERSHIP ACT for Connecticut is rather elusive.

One way I found it, was by searching for “PA83-474” using Google. (And do not ask how I got to that – but it works).

And here is another site
http://law.justia.com/codes/connecticut/2011/
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Bruce:

LOL … your legislators would not like my question … it would be something to the effect of where was your head. Guess a question that Gary needs to answer is when was his condominium community created?

Chapter 828:

Sec. 47-214. Applicability of chapter and amendments thereto to common interest communities. Except as provided in section 47-216, the provisions of this chapter apply to all common interest communities created within this state on or after January 1, 1984. The provisions of chapter 825 do not apply to condominiums created on or after January 1, 1984. Amendments to this chapter apply to all common interest communities created after January 1, 1984, or subjected to this chapter by amendment of the declaration of the common interest community, regardless of when the amendment to this chapter is adopted, except that an amendment to this chapter applies only to events and circumstances occurring on or after the effective date of such amendment to this chapter.

Chapter 825:

Sec. 47-69. Applicability of chapter. Section 47-69 is repealed.

It appears the legislators messed up here in that this should not have stated “repealed” but instead should have noted The provisions of chapter 825 do not apply to condominiums created on or after January 1, 1984 And then referenced that condominiums after 1984 fall under Chapter 828.

LOL … no wonder as you say that it is a common mistake. It also should have potentially been referenced at the beginning of Chapter 825 what does or does not fall under the provisions.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
BTW Bruce ... forgot to say thank you so much for pointing that out for me.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Ellie … Thank you for the link; however, I prefer if possible to utilize an actual State site such as that which I posted in my response to Bruce above. This insures that the statutes being reviewed should be the most current and up to date.

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