POA not sure who owner of property is

Started by EvelynS • 15 replies • 1550 views

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EvelynS (Texas)
Posts: 11

Posted:

We have some people living on some lake property in our POA who are not abiding by many of our restrictions. We have not been able to confirm who the owner is. The tax roll states the name of a person but the address that they have belongs to a different owner. Taxes are paid on the property through 2010, 2011 hasn't been paid yet. So if we find that the owner is dead and these people are squatters, can we do anything? BTW--we're in Texas, Henderson County and we're a lake side subdivision with a POA.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

you should be able to search your county records for owners, most counties have that available online.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Even if the owner is dead, that does not mean these people are "squatters."

What is the REAL issue that you are seeking who owns this property?

EvelynS (Texas)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Yes, we're trying to find out who the owner as we're not sure the county records are correct. In our area, the County records are often not updated.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

in order for legal ownership to transfer the county would have had to receive some documents and record them...

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here's the deal...Regardless of who the owner is the HOA serves their paperwork to the address IN the HOA. It's more of a courtesy or issue of contacting the owner personally to locate the address outside the HOA. It is more the physical address the law looks at with foreclosures or liens than the owner's name. The owner is just attached to that address/property. So ultimately the owner will be involved when the property does.

My suggestion is to send registered letters to that address in your HOA. Even if they reject those letters, it shows proof in court that address was served properly with notifications. Plus part of the lien/foreclosure process is to give PUBLIC notice of those actions in your local newspaper in the legal section. (The legals section isn't produced every day for all papers but is in the classified area usually. This is useful for other possible contact information) This public notice is used in law to show proper notice was given openly with equal access.

This is how when you here these HOA horror stories about how a HOA foreclosed on their home without "notice" it is NOT exactly true. It is published in the newspaper and the HOA most likely sent notices to their HOA home. The HOA is NOT responsible to go chasing people down. It is responsible to serve on the property in their domain.

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/29/2012 9:56 AM
Here's the deal...Regardless of who the owner is the HOA serves their paperwork to the address IN the HOA. It's more of a courtesy or issue of contacting the owner personally to locate the address outside the HOA. It is more the physical address the law looks at with foreclosures or liens than the owner's name. The owner is just attached to that address/property. So ultimately the owner will be involved when the property does.

My suggestion is to send registered letters to that address in your HOA. Even if they reject those letters, it shows proof in court that address was served properly with notifications. Plus part of the lien/foreclosure process is to give PUBLIC notice of those actions in your local newspaper in the legal section. (The legals section isn't produced every day for all papers but is in the classified area usually. This is useful for other possible contact information) This public notice is used in law to show proper notice was given openly with equal access.

This is how when you here these HOA horror stories about how a HOA foreclosed on their home without "notice" it is NOT exactly true. It is published in the newspaper and the HOA most likely sent notices to their HOA home. The HOA is NOT responsible to go chasing people down. It is responsible to serve on the property in their domain.

I would disagree, in today's electronic world it is easier to find people. Does your HOA want to sit on late fees, dues and then foreclose because you didn't try to find someone? Or do you want to take a few extra minutes and track someone down. The dues may not be getting paid because the owner forgot about it and isn't gettig notices, you can't expect people to pay if you don't bill them.

I don't know about other's locations, but in my county I can look up property address, see who the owner's are and also see if they have listed any other address as their permanent address. Takes me about 30 seconds a property to do that.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi Evelyn:

To find out the owner go to your County Records office and pull the most current Warranty Deed for the properties. This document would show the actual legal name(s) of the owner. This in turn will help you determine if the name on the tax roll properly corresponds. The tax roll is where an owner has designated they want to have their property tax bill sent and is not always the address for the property.

Has no board member gone over knocked on the door and introduced themselves? I know everyone in my community and when someone new moves in they are welcomed to the neighborhood. This would be a method to strike up a casual conversation after they in turn introduce themselves and opens a door to find out who they are and if names match.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Property records are behind by several months. It depends how long it takes the new owner's information to transfer or to register for homestead exemptions. You may find the details out in 30 seconds or less but it's 30 days or more for them to post it accurately.

Regardless if you can or can not find the owner, the HOA still serves the paperwork to the ADDRESS of the property in the HOA. That is the legal address of the owner regardless if they actually live there or rent it out. IF you want to make the VOLUNTEER effort to find the actual owner, then go for it. Just don't use it as an excuse NOT to follow up on actions.

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/29/2012 1:55 PM
Property records are behind by several months. It depends how long it takes the new owner's information to transfer or to register for homestead exemptions. You may find the details out in 30 seconds or less but it's 30 days or more for them to post it accurately.

Regardless if you can or can not find the owner, the HOA still serves the paperwork to the ADDRESS of the property in the HOA. That is the legal address of the owner regardless if they actually live there or rent it out. IF you want to make the VOLUNTEER effort to find the actual owner, then go for it. Just don't use it as an excuse NOT to follow up on actions.

Actually where I live you can see there is a section for permanent residence of the owner and in some cases since it is a rental home it is different. I guess it depends on what you want to do, do you want to just cover your bases and take the easy route or do you really want to contact the owner and put in a little more legwork

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I think people just assume that HOA's know who are renters and owner's. You think that information is stored "somehwere". It's NOT the case for every HOA. Especially if there is no system in place to record ownership or approve rental. Most HOA's depend on the checks written for dues to reflect the owner of the homes. That's not necessarily the best method but the method used. Each HOA is different and has different ways to determine ownership.

Admittedly, our HOA didn't have a really good system of identifying ownership except for the dues payments. So I've had to do my fair share of research and legwork to find out the ownership situation of each home. It is very hard work and you discover many different resources. The newspaper is useful tool to use as I found out by a happy accident.

After many many hours of phone calls, internet researches, and actual visits to properties...I discovered that contacting the actual owner may just be more or less a curiousity quest. Does it help when the legal hammer comes down? Yes and no. If your going to do a lawsuit then knowing the owner's information is helpful. However, knowing lawsuits are pretty much NOT a useful tool of the HOA...I'd rather go after the lien/foreclosure option that doesn't require using owner information outside of the HOA's property address.

It's kind of like lien/foreclose the property and the owner will come. They have to sell the property sometime or they will find out about the foreclosure by legal means. Otherwise, they aren't interested enough in the property to keep it anyways...

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EvelynS on 02/29/2012 6:24 AM
Taxes are paid on the property through 2010, 2011 hasn't been paid yet. So if we find that the owner is dead and these people are squatters, can we do anything?

You may contact the police as a concerned citizen saying you believe someone is living on the property without permission.

The police will investigate and handle the issue as the laws allow.

Unfortunately, the Association is not the owner and therefore has zero rights to directly kick squatters off the property.

Has anyone knocked on the door and asked to speak to the owner?
If they say that they are renting, ask for the address they send the rent check to.

Tim

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EvelynS on 02/29/2012 6:24 AM
We have some people living on some lake property in our POA who are not abiding by many of our restrictions. We have not been able to confirm who the owner is. The tax roll states the name of a person but the address that they have belongs to a different owner. Taxes are paid on the property through 2010, 2011 hasn't been paid yet. So if we find that the owner is dead and these people are squatters, can we do anything? BTW--we're in Texas, Henderson County and we're a lake side subdivision with a POA.

When you say living on some lake property, please clarify living. Camping, in a house, etc.

Thanks

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

the 'county' sends the tax notices to the address specified by the property's owner ... this address is also 'public information' ... done deal

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The county tax records are what most are refering to when we talk records. Unfortunately those tax records are NOT accurate or up to date. It can take 3 to 6months in some areas to reflect ownership changes. It depends on how fast the closing documents or someone going to the tax assessor's office to register. I wouldn't be surprised if the tax records are a year out of date.

Death and taxes are unavoidable but the slowness of the government is assured...

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

It boils down to what you want to do, do you want to do the minimum required and just send to the property address? Then don't be surprised when you don't get a response and the dues pile up. My personal opinion, especially with all the tools available, take some time and do a little research, you will be amazed at the things you can find online to track people down. Yes it has helped us in collections.

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