Unit noise issue

Hello we live in a townhome complex where we have a renter that carries on daily computer based VOIP telephone conversations in their patio that can be heard in my unit and my wife and I can't enjoy our home without hearing her voice unless we close our windows and sometimes even that doesn't help. As a board member I e-mailed the owner asking for a nice resolution but she escalated it saying the renters had rights to use their patio.

The noise got so bad that I filed a formal complaint citing our CC&R's that state: Quiet Enjoyment: No Owner shall permit or suffer anything to be done or kept upon such Owner's Condominium which will obstruct or interfere with the rights of quiet enjoyment of the other occupants or annoy them by unreasonable noises or otherwise.

Tonight we had a board meeting and the unit owner and her husband were present. The husband questioned who defined unreasonable noise but also was rude to the point of questioning the Boards rights and integrity. We came to a compromise where they were going to inform their renters to understand the noise constraints of our community where a headset and try to keep her voice down etc... but they informed us that they are not going to ask their renter to take their conversation inside the unit.

I personally don't believe this will work and if it doesn't the Board has rights to fine the unit owner upon other additional filed complaints. What other options does a Board have in addressing this issue. We are in California and I do wonder what unreasonable really constitutes and who defines unreasonable.

Thanks,

David,

I would also like to look at this from another perspective. I also live in a Town house so I can relate to some of what you are describing.

Living in a town home is not the same as living in a single family home. You have shared walls and will hear your neighbors. Having windows open will allow more outside sound to enter your home than if the windows were closed.

I work overnights which makes me a day sleeper. Is it right for me to complain about trash trucks coming through the neighborhood while I'm trying to sleep? What about the children playing outside in the summer or people cutting the grass? Of course not. These are things I need to accept while working these hours as it would not be reasonable for others to change their habits to accommodate my schedule.

You mentioned that you like to have your window open. Well, if your neighbors like to use their porch that is by the open window, you will get extra noise. Is it reasonable to ask your neighbors to not enjoy their porch/deck/backyard because you like to have your windows open and hear them. Of course not.

Living in a town home I expect to hear my neighbors go up and down their stairs. They should expect to hear me yell at the TV if my team is losing (or winning). That's part of living in a town home, condo or apartment. If I didn't want to hear them, I should have bought a single family home. Now that's not saying that we shouldn't be courteous to each other.

Personally, I don't think that what you describe is an issue the Association should be involved in. It's a dispute between two neighbors. If the noise is too loud, contact the police. They can be an unbiased determination and have the authority to tell them to control the noise level.

You mention that you e-mailed the neighbor as a Board member. You should have knocked on the door as a neighbor and discussed the situation. Perhaps invited them over so they could better understand the issue. By approaching the issue as a board member vs. a neighbor you probably placed them on the defensive. Unfortunately, that bell has been rung and you can't go back and change it.

That's my two cents on the issue looking at it from a different perspective.

Tim

A couple observations

- one-sided cell phone conversations have a way of being unusually annoying, oddly more so that a conversation between two people who are conversing

- some people, perhaps unintentionally, will raise their voices above normal conversational levels when using a cell phone.

It is possible that this is unusually disturbing to neighbors and rises to the level that would justify action by the HOA.

Unreasonable equates to what would a sane, normal, prudent person do...understanding townhome life is not always peace and quiet me being a sane, normal and prudent person would take caution in my daily habits to ensure that I don't unnecessarily disrupt others around me. To me having this conversation outsdie if it is more than just a once in a while thing is disruptive in my opinion. She knows there are others living in close proximity so in my opinion she should excercise caution. Does she need to be outside to conduct the work, will going inside cause her irreparable harm, probably not in both cases.

Now, if I were in her situation and occassionaly stepped outside while on a call and someone complained I would tell them where to stick it but I would also be a lot more respectful if I were doing it on a frequent basis.

Reading between the lines of your post, it sounds like your neighbor is receiving her telephone calls through speakers, rather than a handset or headphones. This is not just normal conversation but amplified sound. I am also assuming that she is responding by speaking through a microphone. Whether the sound is a voice or music, the use of speakers on a patio or balcony in a condo or townhouse is just plain rude behavior. If she is using a microphone, it may be the one built into her laptop and she has to speak much more loudly than she would through a headset. So you have amplified sound coming in and shouting going out. This is not normal behavior.

I have to agree with the unit owner that you cannot stop a person from conversing on their patio nor can you prevent them from speaking on the phone on the patio. But you can prevent them from blasting sound through speakers and you can stop them from yelling. You have the right to the peaceful enjoyment of your property and the renter's conduct is unreasonably interfering with your rights.

Your HOA is not likely going to take any further action as it is your problem and not theirs. If you were in Arizona my advice would be to apply for an Injunction to Prohibit Harassment at your local justice court or municipal court. Since I do not know relief is available in California all I can do is suggest that you check with your local police department or municipal court. If help is not available there, then I would suggest hiring a lawyer to send a couple of warning letters to the resident and unit owner.

Under those circumstace I would say the board has a right to act. Our general rule of thumb is ... if the problem is affecting more than two neighbors then it is not clasified as a "neighbor issue". This is especially true if more than one owner is complaing about the same issue. Hopefully the other owners have made formal complaints.

We usually like three or more written complaints before pursuing 'nusiance' complaints. EVEN then, do so very cautiously.

But a standard (threshold) needs to be set as to noise level(s) permissable. This can be easily measured objectively to eliminate subjectivity... the 'achilles heel' of these type of problems.

A security guard's opinion would have no merit in a case of nuisance.