Pet Waste

Dog Poop waste problem is way out of control. Our county has a stationary fine of $250 but they have not fined anyone since 1999. We have plastic bag dispensers but no repository. Some use the bag, many do not and yesteday I just picked up over 100 bags that were tossed under the spruce and fir trees in various areas. This is only the tip of the iceburg. I'm sure that there's probably 300-400 bags all over the community. I guess that we're going to have to hire someone to clean it all up. Have you ever noticed that some dog owners have heads that swivel 280 degrees when their dog is in the process of pooping? Has anyone started a DNA program. For $30 per pet, I think that this is cheap. I would think that it would be difficult to implement. The folks that are causing the problem, would probably raise a stink. (No Pun Intended).

Mike,

I commend your Association on willing to install dispensers. However, that was only part of the solution. It sounds like the Association now needs to place trash cans next to the dispensers. Once this is done, you can see what other steps need to be done.

Tim

I see where some high rise Condos are starting to implement DNA registration ($30 per pet). I would think that this would be difficult to implement and met with a lot of resistance. If anyone on this forum has seen this implemented, I'd be curious to know how that experience went.

Yep - Susan - You're right. We contacted one of the big companies that specialize in maintaining dispensors and receptacles and that's exactly what he said.
Put the receptacles where you find the bags. We're going to hire a professional company to maintain this stuff. There goes the assessments.

This seems to be a problem everywhere. I say let people know that if it doesn't stop you will be hiring someone to clean up after pets and adding the cost to the monthly maintenance. Dog mess affects the property values of the entire community so the cost maybe could be justified ???

Do you fine people who are caught ? That generally works for us.

Mike,
yes we fine. You are right though that it is difficult to sometimes see them actually commiting the rule violation.

We sometimes get owners who want to see proof ... video tape even.. but as officers of the asociation you do not need to provide proof to fine for violations of the rules. Upholding the rules and regulations is one of the legal functions of the board.

If you don't see them breaking the rule then I would say you are out of luck. However, after a "Linda Blair" performance I'm not sure why you aren't able to catch them.

Mike,
I couldn't help but pass this along. This morning's paper reported on an association in Ohio where dog owners are now required to registrar their dog with the "poo prints" DNA program. Each dog is swabed for an inital DNA sample (no cost for this first one). New dogs or new owners with dogs must pay a $50 fee.

a sample of left behind dog waste is sent to the BioPet Vet Lab in Knoxville. Once the DNA is identified the pet owner is charged a $200 fine for each violation.

Does that want to make you laugh, cry or get out the swabs ?

Unfortunately the article didn't get into how residents responded except to quote one resident who thought it was silly and a waste of money. The resident thought a fee for dog owners or paying maintenance more to do the job was better. Actually she said raise the fee so it seem that they have a fee now. We don't have a fee for dog owners but I believe other associations do. As for paying maintenance that seems unfair to other non-dog owners.

I can see that because whether you see them in the act or not the proof is indisputable and they can't argue that it wasn't them. It just struck me as a little extreme but if you have a big problem then sometimes an extreme solution is needed. It also seems like it would pay for itself so other non-dog owners couldn't complain about the cost.

Another benefit and selling point I hadn't considered. Hope it works out for your association.

John,
That seems to work for some associations. I think cats bury their waste so probably only dogs are an issue. One problem is that owners who pick up after their pet find it unfair to have to pay a fee but I guess the same can be said for a fee to get the DNA test done. However the DNA fee I believe is a one time thing.

Janet makes a good point ... all this only works if the offender is a member of your asociation. Part of our problem are neighbors walking their dogs along the front of our property. Then we get "if they don't pick up why should we have to do it ?"

Yes, getting other owners to report things is a problem everywhere I guess.

I do not recommend charging fees for service animals.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53602814-78/association-condo-service-veteran.html.csp

On Monday, a federal judge signed a consent decree enacting the $20,000 settlement. The condo association and its managers also must attend fair housing training, stop requiring owners of service animals to pay for pet insurance and pet fees and submit to monitoring. The condo association must accept any service animal, regardless of its training or certification, if the owner provides written instruction from a doctor.

Janet - Would not evern think of it.

Mike,

We have the same problem in my neighborhood. Contact the Animal Control in your area. Where I live it is a fine if you do not pick up after your pet. They will come out to the owner and fine them. You need the time, place, type of dog, etc. Just check with Animal Control and they will let you know. Good luck!

Brad - I agree, but this is only for dogs who use the common areas. If someone has a dog that stays in their own yard, registration would not be required. . We're going to first try moving the pet stations and installing cannisters(which we did not have before. We only had stations with bag dispensors). If that does not work, we're going to start talking to the dog owners about Pet Registration and DNA. After talking to 3 dog owners already, they indicate that they are all for it. Like with anything else, it's usually just a few bad apples that spoils it for everyone else. These 3 owners say that these bad apples give all dog owners a bad name. We had a preliminary discussion with the association attorney and it does look like we can implement a Pet Registration with a fee. Yes, I think that it's an idea that is a little ahead of it's time, but I think that in the future, you're going to see a lot more of this. Right now (like you say), it's used with apartments and condos, (Not that many Townhomes and singles), but it's definately coming. We already have a copy of the policy resolution that is generally used by other communities.

Hi Mike … I really did not think you would, but also want to make sure others reading consider the ramifications after Brad mentioned the subject of service animals. Sometimes there are owners who get stubborn in wanting a certain regulation and do not consider the big picture consequences. If I did not point it out then possibly another HOA would unfortunately pay for a costly mistake down the road.


Where pet fees are more common is the mentioned “privately owned” businesses. The issue HOA’s run into is they are non-profit associations and regulations are essentially supposed to be “all for one and one for all”. The problem you run into here is it is not equitable and when you cross the equitable line is when most battles begin.

While some associations are now trying to implement, I would imagine in the future this will only make legislatures start passing more statutes. Remember in the past there were HOA’s who denied flags and various state legislators fixed that wagon, you had HOA’s not allow signs and various state legislators again fixed that issue, etc. Figured it was a matter of time on the signs after the US Supreme Court ruled I think it was 1994 that cities could not regulate non-business signs (it violated citizen’s constitutional right to express themselves). I know we all get the argument that an HOA is a private contract; however, as noted with new statutes on flags, signs, etc. it should start all of us considering that fine line we in HOA’s walk and whether or not to cross regarding certain citizen rights.

Mike, I want to commend you on discussing with the pet owners. Too many HOA’s charge ahead on an issue, without making sure they have the proper troops behind them. If you get the majority on board ahead of time then it potentially will eliminate any battles concerning the issue. I am a pet owner and I agree with your homeowners and Brad that a few individual with no morals and ethics tends to unfortunately spoil it for others. Just think if it was not for those type individuals we would not have so many civil laws throughout the land.

LOL … Kathy per your “I am now on the Board, and had I known what I know now, I would have skipped dealing with the Board and videotaped the dogs using our lawns and let the city fine them $2000.” I let neighbors know to pull out that darn cell phone most everyone carries now with photo and/or video and send it to the appropriate government agency with the address of the perpetrator. You know that saying “Pictures worth a thousand words.” Why should the HOA be legally responsible for ordinances already covered by the local government agency?

Janet, At least we have a lot of dialogue going on right now and at least we have a raised awareness. I would not call it a pet fee but rather Pet Registration. The policy resolution also addresses verification of the fact that the pet has up to date rabies shots etc. After we put a survey up on the website, it seems that about 2/3's of the folks want to pay for the pet stations and the cost of service. That's suprising since it's about $1,500 for the new stations and about $8.58 per household per year to service the stations. I never mentioned DNA testing to any of the homeowners, but it seems that the dog owners are suggesting that we start a pet registration program with DNA testing. I never planted this seed, but it seems to growing fast. Since a lot of the dog waste is right around the existing stations, I'm do not think that new stations will mean that they will pick up. So residents tell me that there are 3 problems. (1) folks that refuse to pick up (2) folks who pick up and then throw the used bags in the storm drains, storm ponds, woods and other common areas and (3) folks who witness the problem, but refuse to let our property manager so that we can send the owner a friendly reminder. At least we have everyone talking and what ever happens, I'm hoping that we get the community behind us before we make a decision.

I think you would need a lot of video evidence, on different days, to prove your case and even then it might be a battle. It might also help if you get another neighbor to complain with you. The problem with that is, just because someone complains and agrees with you, doesn't mean they're willing to go the extra mile and possibly have to go to court and risk bad feelings in the neighborhood. We've been disappointed by neighbors on both sides of this issue.
I wonder if warning letters could be sent to your violators letting them know they were seen leaving poop. Maybe if they knew they were being watched, things would improve a little bit. You would probably need to repeat this as needed.
I had never heard of using doggie DNA to match the poop with the dog, interesting, thanks for bringing that idea up!

DNA testing for cats AND dogs. I lived next to someone whose cats used my garden as their kitty litter. I always advise gardeners to use gloves just in case.

We pick up for our dogs but we have neighbors not in the community who let their dogs wander. This is to say, after we moved they had problems with feces. Glad we aren't there or we would have been fined as the only dog owners.

Some Korean restaurants do an awesome job of braised dog. Add a little kimchi and you have a memorable meal.

MarkS25 - I know that our landscapers hate it when they run over a pile and it slings it all over. Some of our homeowners have the same problem when they mow their lawns and they spend another 1/2 hour cleaning their mower. One thing that works well is this. Go to a nursery or garden center and buy about 20-40 wire landscaper marker flags. They cost about 5 cents a piece. Whenever you see the pile, leave a marker flag so that they landscaper sees it and oddly enough, it calls attention to the problem for residents as well. You'll notice that neither the dog nor the owner likes the marker flags so they will usually stop pooping there. Believe me, it works. The other thing that I see condos doing is Pet registration (to include DNA colletion kit which is paid for from the Pet registration fee). The cost is very inexpensive and the test is not all that cheap, but guess what... Once you have their DNA, your don't usually find any poop around so you don't have to test, unless it's from someone that does not live in the community. You mentioned 'Pails" or repositories at the dispenser stations. Right now we are considering installing 6 new stations at a cost of about $1500 that have a dispensor and repository at the bottom. These would be serviced by a poo service company who charges $10 per station per week. We did an online survey and 60% of the respondants recommmended installing these even though a lot of them were not pet owners. Many of the residents were more interested in a clean environment in which their kids could play without getting this stuff on their shoes and feet. Yes, we have some owners that drop the used bags at the base of the dispensors also. Who do they think is going to clean it up?
I have a game camera and I'm ready to strap it to a tree next to the dispensor in order to see who the jerk that is doing this. Good luck.

Lawns are one of the most intensive and time consuming areas of maintenance in a garden, but the rewards of a well kept lawn are great. City governments absolutely have the right to tell an individual how to maintain their own house. For instance, Homeowners should avoid not mowing the lawn fines.

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