Suing our township

Started by CherylC1 • 17 replies • 3307 views

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CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

3 members of our HOA Board went to the township telling them they wanted financial help with the pond.
There has been building above our development and we get drainage from this developments. Because
the township said it wasn't really their issue these HOA members went to the attorney and
proceeded with a lawsuit suing our township, school district and builders of the development above us.
I am not in favor of this at all but my question is, I heard
that you cannot sue a municipality (township and school district). Is this correct? We live in Pennsylvania.

Thank you!
(so far our community has paid out almost $100,000. For this money we could have fixed the
problems ourselves!)

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Yes, you can bring suit against the township and/or the school district for contruction that floods your property.

The engineers who determined the stormwater run-off flow goofed, if I get what you are saying.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

anyone can sue anyone, or anything, else in this great country of ours.

Even the Federal Government.

CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Well I heard the Municipalities are immune from lawsuits. If this
was the case then those attorneys are just draining our funds.
Wouldn't surprise me.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CherylC1 on 02/18/2012 6:21 PM
Well I heard the Municipalities are immune from lawsuits. If this was the case then those attorneys are just draining our funds. Wouldn't surprise me.

Where did you hear this? From an attorney? Did you read it in a statute? A court decision? Or is this just something someone else told you? And why is that person a credible source of legal information?

You previously stated that your HOA has already spent over $100,000 on this lawsuit. If your information was correct that the township is immune, the case would have been dismissed long before your HOA got that deep into the lawsuit.

You seem to have an issue with three members of your board of directors. Are you a board member, too?

CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Yes I did hear it from someone that was at a meeting regarding this lawsuit.
The attorneys said now they had to get past the suing of a municipality.
I don't have a problem with 3 board members. I have a problem with all of them but
1. They have done so many things that are so wrong and we have tried to stop them,
it isn't possible. Now after our association saved money for years and have a nice
nest egg for the future, well it looks like it could get wiped out.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I think I understand your question. There may be a sliver of truth to it but the township can be sued. What can't be sued is the INDIVIDUAL board members of the township PERSONALLY like your own board can't be. The HOA has an insurance policy protecting the personal assets of a serving board member. A Township or city has a similar policy. This doesn't mean the board can't be sued just not the individuals on it.

I can't believe 100,000 has been spent on this issue. That number sounds a bit strange to me. Could this be the amount they are suing for? Is the HOA's insurer involved in this? The court is set up to ONLY make you WHOLE and NOT a profit. This means your HOA has to provide estimates of how much the repairs are going to cost them to complete or what they have paid out to remedy the situation including legal fees. Has the HOA done any of this? Repaors or estimates? There has to be a proven loss or hardship in order to prove to the court this is a situation that winning the suit will make whole.

This is YOU and YOUR neighbor's money they are spending on your behalf. Is it worth it? If NOT, then it's time to discuss options which are in your documentation to do...

Former HOA President

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

(so far our community has paid out almost $100,000. For this money we could have fixed the problems ourselves!)

I've never known a lawyer who would turn down $100,000. Yes, of course the lawyer wants to follow through with the case. Use your head.

No matter if you win or loose, your lawyer always wins.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Generally a city can be held legally accountable for damages that it causes to others. Most states have statutes on the books regulating lawsuits against city governments. These statutes often give cities “immunity” against certain forms of lawsuits. If the legal action you are contemplating falls under this category, you will unfortunately be out of luck unless you can somehow frame your claim in such a way that it does not fall under the "immunity" statute.

As Susan stated if this can be found as the City Engineer or some other city entity failed with regards to their duty then potentially yes. You need to review both your local government and State Statutes to determine which lawsuits can be filed and do not fall under any immunity status.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We had a few years ago a group of homeowners who experienced land slides in our city. Their homes and roads were literly falling down the mountain side! Here is the rub. Years ago the city/developers were told that area could NEVER be developed on that side of the mountain because of the potential for land slides. However, our future mayor (now ex) was on the committee to approve development. She and other high income people wanted to build homes there and ignored the warnings. Fast forward a few years and their development/homes are now subject to land slides and unstability issues. Guess who they wanted to pay the bill?

Yes, the CITY had to pay for repairing the road that had collapsed preventing some homeowners from getting to their homes. Our Tax dollars paid for all of this...The good news is that no more development is allowed in that area and more people listen to the recommendations of professionals...

It's good to work with the city and attend their meetings NOT just the HOA's. I'd suggest going to a few city council meetings and finding out what type of committees they have. It may be good to find out if there is a development board and code restrictions. Decisions should be public record. This stuff about this development was published in the newspaper. Knowing how the system works may provide an answer without filing the lawsuit. Although it may be the only option to a point. I would want to know how the city will handle such issues in the future.

Former HOA President

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

Yes municipalities can be sued.

Ours has several times most of which are for traffic accidents involving Police and Utility vehicles while others are zoning and code enforcement issues. Most of these have been resolved by settlements rather than actual trials.

In our case the city is 'self insured' and no insurance companies are involoved.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/19/2012 5:37 AM
It's good to work with the city and attend their meetings NOT just the HOA's. I'd suggest going to a few city council meetings and finding out what type of committees they have. It may be good to find out if there is a development board and code restrictions. Decisions should be public record. This stuff about this development was published in the newspaper. Knowing how the system works may provide an answer without filing the lawsuit. Although it may be the only option to a point. I would want to know how the city will handle such issues in the future.

This is not only good for the reasons Melissa stated, but also to let your local government know someone is watching. Our country has ended up in a mess because no one was watching. Keeping an eye starts with the local government entities and moves up the ladder. There have been a couple of times where my local government would have potentially made the opposite decision, if there had not been a few of us citizens present who they knew could have pitched a fit. Keep in mind their decisions sometimes can affect your property, HOA, and your pockets.

Same thing with HOA’s in that if individuals are not attending meetings then the board can make decisions based on just their desires and wants, because they are not being over seen by the members who can voice a different opinion. It’s your money and marketability of property so keep an eye on the overall association business.

CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Thank you! I am extremely discouraged! I attended meetings for 1 1/2 years.
They made up a $10 charge that they said I owed to keep me from getting on the
board. Even when the HOA attorney told them to do the right things they ignored him.
Unfortunately we have 520 homes and only about 8 of us would go to the meetings.
They just do what they want. I did sue them for making up the charge and keeping
me off the board. I should have listened to all of you. The judge threw out the
case after I spent money on the attorney. Unfortunately the attorney who is
representing our HOA in this pond lawsuit was behind keeping me off the board.
I wasn't for the lawsuit but I am only one person. Not sure what they were afraid of???
That is why I wondered if we really could sue our township or not. These attorneys seem
very dishonest! So I feel if these people on my community don't want to get involved then
I can't do it alone!

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Most likely, as someone mentioned before, this lawsuit will be settled out of court and would include the HOA's attorney fees. Which is probably a reason why the attorney is running up the tab.

If the HOA property is being flooded by an engineering mistake made by the township, it will be fixed by them.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

What is the relation of the attorney to the board and what type of lawyer is he? They can't prevent you from running on the board. No document says a member in bad standing can't run for a board position. It just means you can't vote for yourself or others. However, who is going to vote for a member in bad standing? It can be done and just explain the false charge which I would have paid at the meeting with a check...

Your HOA sounds like it is suffering from endless legal cycle. Knee jerk reacting and letting the lawyers run the show. A strong HOA doesn't need to go crying to a lawyer each move they make. They understand their position and rules without using an attorney except for the necessary services a lawyer provides.

I say it is time to assert your frustrations into a positive direction and work on getting more people involved. You may even hold some workshops on your rules just to get people educated. It's a good time to review and update those docs as well...

Former HOA President

CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Thank you! I made a copy of my statement that showed a $0 balance and gave it
to the "pond" attorney (because for some reason they were using her to keep me
off the board-yes dishonest!) She sent me a letter stating I could not be on the board
at this time. I didn't owe any money. That is the part the makes me so mad. I had
a group of about 10 to 12 people behind me and wanted me to find an attorney and
sue them. It didn't work out in my favor. I really think that the "pond" attorney
is doing exactly what you are saying. Running the tab up so it makes her look good.
My husband wrote a letter that was published in the newsletter telling the people
of the community that they need to go to a meeting and request an audit and a few
other things, guess what? No one went to the meeting or stepped forward. Not
sure how people can turn their backs, I guess that is the easy way out, until it
hits their pocketbooks. Then it will be too late!! I just hate that our HOA board
is so dishonest!! I just thought if I found out that they couldn't sue our township
that then maybe the people would wake up!!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

People will wake up when they find out it is THEIR money being used in this lawsuit. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members FOR it's members...Sounds like until there is talk of a raise in dues over this most won't care...

I wonder how many even know they are in a HOA?

Former HOA President

CherylC1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 80

Posted:

They know they are in an HOA, they just don't want to get involved.
I think because they saw how nasty these people are so they don't
want to "rock the boat". i have lived here 20 years and everything was
fine until 3 years ago. These people got on the board and wouldn't let
anyone but their friends on. It has been horrible ever since. But you
are right, when they have to pay they will be crying. Too late!!

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