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TomP (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Do any of your Associations have a policy where a late fee for the monthly assessment payment is waived for the first offense per year?

For example, if a homeowner has payed their monthly assessment on time for 15 years and for some reason misses the "pay by" date by a few days, do you waive the late fee or go strictly by the rules? Is it black and white or do you use judgement on a case by case basis?

We're thinking about putting in a one time per year "freebie" provision and would be very interested in any comments or experience you might have with this approach.

Thank you

Tom

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
As an unwritten policy, we will waive a late fee if a person requests it, and has good reason, and has been consistantly on time.

If there is a written policy of one freebie per year, then that could possibly be an invitation to take advantage of it. If many people did, then it could potentially cause a lot of extra work for our MC. And since they are getting that freebie, it would cost us $5.00 per collection letter per late account that we couldn't recover because we granted all the freebies.

This is the worst case scenario, but if in a 200 home HOA, everyone took advantage of the one time per year freebie, and they all took it in January every year, with the fee for the late letter, that would have to be sent. being $5.00, the cost to the HOA would be $1,000, plus a deficit in working capital for that month.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Tom:

I think you have a good idea, and I think it is important for your board to be flexible. However, as William said I would not put this in writing as it is just an invitation for problems.

If the board is consistent in waiving late fees you will be ok. To me there is a difference between a guy who pays on time for 15 years and forgets and someone who forgets once a year.
TomJ (Arizona)
Posts: 42
Posted:
We will waive a late fee if the home owner request it and they have had a good payment record.

In fact, I just got a notice I was late and got assessed a late fee but I have the documentation that my bank paid it (automatic payment). Our Management Company has made this mistake before, not posting the payment then asking for a late fee.
TomJ (Arizona)
Posts: 42
Posted:
We will waive a late fee if the home owner request it and they have had a good payment record. We do not publish this however.

In fact, I just got a notice I was late and got assessed a late fee but I have the documentation that my bank paid it (automatic payment). Our Management Company has made this mistake before, not posting the payment then asking for a late fee.

TomP (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks for the replies. It's a tough issue balancing between trying to do what's right and enforcing the rules. If one fee is waived, then everyone would want theirs waived and then why have the rule.

Our Board is still wrestling with the issue.

Thanks everyone for the input.

Tom
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
I think most HOA's do waive the late fees on an individual basis anyways. I wouldn't put it in writing. My accounting office would call me to ask if it was alright if a member didn't pay due to various issues. Surprisingly, the people who are consistently late NEVER called with an excuse! Late fees are more incentives to pay on time than actual revenue for the HOA.
I would like to know your opinion on this scenerio. My former HOA had 2 homeowners die within 2 weeks of eachother. The first was a car accident and the second was on a heart transplant list and died. The guy who was on the heart transplant list was the former Vice-President the year before. He did owe the Association money for an issue he was protesting. (About $300 at the time of his death). The lady who died in the car accident was not behind in dues.
Here is what the new board did: They told the families of the deceased that the dues for that month were "Excused". That meant that $100 of dues NOT paid into the HOA for that month.
Do you think the HOA should have done this? The houses in the HOA sell extremely quickly. (Less than one day in a few cases!) Do you think it is okay to forgive dues in cases of death? Just curious...

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
No I do not think it was ok to excuse the payments. While I can appreciate the sentiment behind it the Board would have been better off soliciting donations to pay the fees for the families who had the deaths.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Lance:

I agree with you and applaude the ability to see past the rules and regulations and have some heart. These families just lost a loved one and for an HOA to be so fickle to demand payment for that month is beyond me. I have said this before and will continue to say it, a board has to have flexibility and a hint of humanity to it. If there are extenuating circumstances they should use their best judgement. These people were members of your community and to say that the payments should not be excused is saying that their money is more important than the person. I think that is what the problem is with a lot of associations, we care too much about rules and forget that we have people living near us. I don't think you have to worry about a precedent issue because I doubt too many people will be killing off their families members just to avoid a payment.

Lance I think you did the right and humane thing, I probably would have waived them for a couple of months. Death is traumatic and can be difficult to overcome, a board needs to understand that.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Tom, the associations we manage have Rules and Regulations on Delinquent Accounts which includes the statement: "An owner may request consideration by the Board of Directors to defer payment due to extenuating circumstances." I think forgiveness of late charges should be considered when applied for promptly and when there is a justification which the Board feels is warranted. I don't believe there should be an automatic forgiveness of late fees.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By BradP on 01/25/2007 6:49 AM
Death is traumatic and can be difficult to overcome, ......


I've never seen anyone overcome it. Well there was one guy a long, long time ago ................... ;)

Seriously, for situations such as this I would certainly waive any late fees and allow a reasonable amount of time for payment. I would not waive the payment of any amount owed though. The gas company, electric company, Internal Revenue Service, etc. will expect their money. The HOA needs theirs also, otherwise, the rest of the members must make up the difference.


Ron
SC
TomP (Illinois)
Posts: 4
Posted:
We wouldn't waive a monthly assessment in the case of a death. The estate is responsible for all debts of the deceased, so the monthly assessment should be paid until the property is sold.

The late fee is different, however. I think if the monthly payment is late due to a death, the late fee should be waived until the estate gets a chance to put things in order. I feel the late fee is a penalty imposed on a resident to change their behavior ie., paying late. If it happens one time over several years, the behavior doesn't need to be changed, therefore, no late fee penalty.

Tom
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Posted By BradP on 01/25/2007 6:49 AM

Lance:

I agree with you and applaude the ability to see past the rules and regulations and have some heart. These families just lost a loved one and for an HOA to be so fickle to demand payment for that month is beyond me. I have said this before and will continue to say it, a board has to have flexibility and a hint of humanity to it. If there are extenuating circumstances they should use their best judgement. These people were members of your community and to say that the payments should not be excused is saying that their money is more important than the person. I think that is what the problem is with a lot of associations, we care too much about rules and forget that we have people living near us. I don't think you have to worry about a precedent issue because I doubt too many people will be killing off their families members just to avoid a payment.

Lance I think you did the right and humane thing, I probably would have waived them for a couple of months. Death is traumatic and can be difficult to overcome, a board needs to understand that.


Brad I have plenty of heart, I just don't use my Association's money to express it. While we will excuse late fees on a case by case basis, I've even had my own forgiven before I was on the BOD and in the hospital. But to forgive months of assessments is inexcusable which is why I suggested taking up donations for the families.

On a side note we have one homeowner whose mother and co-owner died two years ago and stopped paying her assessment. Through some legal maneuvering she was able to hold up previous attempts to foreclose but finally it's set for sheriffs sale or should we just forgive her?


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Glen:

I think you should use common sense, if you would actually go back and re-read my post I agreed with one month waiver of fees, not two years. Since she hasn't paid in two years you have every right to foreclose. However, I think it is an appropriate gesture of sorrow for an association to provide one month or partial month off of the dues. I would be willing to bet money if you asked your members they would agree with this, if the association is that hard up it can't do without the $100 then you have bigger problems.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By BradP on 01/25/2007 9:37 AM
I think it is an appropriate gesture of sorrow for an association to provide one month or partial month off of the dues.

Who has the authority to not collect assessments equally from all owners? I think it would violate the Declaration and set an unacceptable precident.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Roger:

I respectfully disagree, if the homeowners and board agree on it then I see no issues with it. You are right about precedents in some situations, but how often does someone in an association die, most people don't do that to avoid paying.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Roger:

based on that statement if your declarations call for a late fee and interest to be collected, then anyone on here who has forgiven one of those is also in violation and has set a dangerous precedent as well. The easy thing to do is follow the letter of the books, the hard thing to do is look past it. I know I am in the minority on this one.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Not to sound heartless, but I was against the HOA "Excusing" the monthly dues. I felt the HOA should have declined adding any late charges to the dues until the property was sold or properly turned over to family members. I also felt the decision to "Excuse" the monthly dues was NOT a board decision but ALL the HOA members. The decision was NOT voted on by ANY members except the board. I felt that the board should have presented the "option" for the member to donate money to the families to cover the debt/dues.
I don't think the HOA should EVER excuse a monthly payment or use it as an "incentive" to excuse it. (For example board member being exempt due to being board member or doing maintenance work). The money should be paid and if services are rendered then paid out of the HOA budget. This keeps the records straight and everything fair/equal.
By the way, the people who died in our HOA, the family was able to sell the one house for a significant profit and the other went into probate court. So the HOA was out $50 on one house and then it was out $700 while waiting on probate court to release it for bank foreclosure. Due to it being a bank foreclosure and NOT a HOA one, the HOA NEVER got paid ANY backdues! So yes, $100 is important to the budget. And YES, that HOA has serious budget issues..

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA

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