ACC Meetings

Started by BillS4 • 17 replies • 1595 views

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BillS4 (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Do Florida statutes require ACC meetings(NOT BOD MEETINGS) to be properly noticed and open to the HOA membership? Our BOD is concerned that if there is such a requirement, the ACC will be unduly encumbered in responding in a timely manner to architectural review applications.

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526

Posted:

Bills4----- All meetings in an HOA in florida are open to the membership...The ARB and other such Commitee meetings do not fall under the requirement of the 14 day rule .....Your HOA should publish the day,time and place of the meeting.You should go to the Florida State web site and print (30) pages of FSS 720 in its entirety...Also you may want to consider publishing in your HOA newsletter if you have one a friendly reminder about the time period for applications for the ACC as you call it.Here in our HOA your plans must be submitted by the Wed following the monthly BOD meeting for review at the next BOD monthly meeting.It is alos suggested that you plan on attending the BOD meeting in case there are questions form the Board..Attendance however IS NOT mandatory for approval...Hope this helps.LindaC ,fellow HOA member in Florida

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

How would the ACC handle an open meeting if the meeting objective was to discuss violations and the violator(s) were allowed to attend?

Particularly if they were discussing a violation that came to them from the neighbor of the violator.

I'm not saying an alleged violator shouldn't be allowed to appear before the ACC to appeal a decision, but I can't see him or her being allowed to listen to the discussion among the ACC members. (Think of the defendant being allowed to listen to the discussion of the jury.)

Ron
SC

BobA (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Ron,

That should be a simple solution. If the violator and complainant are both at the meeting then it should be handled just like a courtroom, both parties state there case, questions can be asked by the ARB and after both parties are done they are asked to step outside or if you have another room avaiable then the ARB can go behind close doors until a decision is made.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By BobA on 01/21/2007 9:49 AM

Ron,

That should be a simple solution. If the violator and complainant are both at the meeting then it should be handled just like a courtroom, both parties state there case, questions can be asked by the ARB and after both parties are done they are asked to step outside or if you have another room avaiable then the ARB can go behind close doors until a decision is made.

I wouldn't make the neighbor appear, when we receive a complaint, we verify it ourselves. It's then up to the BOD or ACC to decide if it's a valid complaint. We also inspect the neighborhood from time to time for compliance.

Ron
SC

BobA (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Ron,

As I stated "If" both parties were present or even if just the member in violation weer there. Discussions should be without the member present. Just curious if the alleged violator wanted to know who complained do you supply that infomation under Due process.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By BobA on 01/21/2007 3:19 PM

Ron,

As I stated "If" both parties were present or even if just the member in violation weer there. Discussions should be without the member present. Just curious if the alleged violator wanted to know who complained do you supply that infomation under Due process.

Under "due process"? No. If there's a pile of trash in the front yard, there would be no need to identify who complained. No different than if one of the board or ACC members noticed it. The ACC chairman is sent to check and if a violation exists he either pays the owner a visit to point out the violation or mails a letter.

There is no MC doing inspections, just officers, ACC members or "concerned citizens". I feel that we have been elected to "serve" the homeowners and if one observes a violation and reports it to us, it is our duty to follow through and see that it is corrected.

Ron
SC

BobA (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Ron,

That sounds fair. but lets say you recieve a complaint that John Doe is letting his dog ( a black lab)run loose and do his job on his neighbors lawn at night. The neighbor states he has spoken to him but was told it is not him and to get lost. Now you recieve a letter and you send your ACC chairman out and he does not see anything but also speaks to John and is told the same thing. Do you write a letter or do you try to get both parties together to get this resolved. The neighbor states it is up to the Board to get this resolved since it is a Covenant violation. The neighbor gives you dates and times when he has seen this dog running loose, mostly after 9:30 pm on weeknights. What would be your next step.

Ron you state your ACC chairman is sent to check on the violation. Just curious in your covenants is it stated he or she is responsible for that?

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Good thing you don't live in Arizona Ron. Arizona statues requires that the notice of violation include the name(s)of the person or persons who filed the complaint. In addition, our board requires all complaints be in writing and signed. Harold

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By BobA on 01/21/2007 7:40 PM

Ron,

That sounds fair. but lets say you recieve a complaint that John Doe is letting his dog ( a black lab)run loose and do his job on his neighbors lawn at night. The neighbor states he has spoken to him but was told it is not him and to get lost. Now you recieve a letter and you send your ACC chairman out and he does not see anything but also speaks to John and is told the same thing. Do you write a letter or do you try to get both parties together to get this resolved. The neighbor states it is up to the Board to get this resolved since it is a Covenant violation. The neighbor gives you dates and times when he has seen this dog running loose, mostly after 9:30 pm on weeknights. What would be your next step.

We haven't actully had that type of complaint since I've been on the board.

First, it that particular case, it's also a violation of city ordinances so I would advise the neighbor to contact the city with his or her complaint about the dog. Not only do the city police or animal control officers command more respect with their uniforms and guns, anytime the HOA doesn't have to confront a homeowner, I feel this is the best way to handle it.

Neither the city nor the HOA is likely to take action without proof. One homeowner's word against the other won't justify a complaint or even a meeting. Photos of the dog in the yard or statements from other neighbors might. Photos would be best as there is no way to claim it wasn't happening.

Ron you state your ACC chairman is sent to check on the violation. Just curious in your covenants is it stated he or she is responsible for that?

No, there's nothing about who inspects, that's just the way it's been done since the beginning. It could be one of the board members as well. If anyone was unhappy with board or ACC members inspecting, we have the power to appoint other committees as necessary so we could appoint a "compliance committee".

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By HaroldS on 01/21/2007 7:55 PM

Good thing you don't live in Arizona Ron. Arizona statues requires that the notice of violation include the name(s)of the person or persons who filed the complaint. In addition, our board requires all complaints be in writing and signed. Harold

From your posts (this and previous), it ia apparent to me that the AZ legislature is intent on diminishing or eliminating the powers and protections of homeowners associations. This is regrettable.

In the case cited, a pile of trash in the front yard awaiting pickup by the city, why would a complaint need to be in writing? Why would anyone be forced to reveal his or her name to the violator or testify against him or her? Everyone who drives down the street sees it. What if the ACC chairman sees it himself and visits the violator or mails a letter? How about a board member contacting the ACC chairman about the pile of trash? What if a concerned homeowner mentions to me that there is a "situation" on ABC street that needs to be looked into without going into details?

It would be great if we could hire an "inspector" who lives or has a business address outside our community to inspect the development a few times a week and generate the complaints. That way the name of the person who filed the complaint would be "John's HOA Inspections, LLC, P.O. Box 1234 Anytown, USA". I've been considering this but haven't heard of anyone doing this. Thoughts ?

Ron
SC

BobA (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Ron,

I do not think that the AZ legislature is trying to diminish the powers of the HOA's, but instead is trying to keep a balance so that HOA's have to uphold the same constitutional rights Local, State and Federal authorities have to. Now if a Board member sees the violation and speaks to the homeowner and the homeowner requests a hearing then Both parties would be there. So its the same principal. If a violation is happening in the backyard and a neighbor complains, you can not just walk in there back yard and look for the violation.
We had a homeowner who complained about everything and everyone, this person and there friend would walk around 3 to 4 times a day looking for violations. Of course when the board would get a letter they could not verify the complaint. Alot dealt with dogs running loose and doing there job on someones lawn. The complaint with dog was that they allowed it to run off the property. What actually happened was the homeowner was playing ball with the dog and sometimes the ball would go into the street, the dog would get it and come right back. The Covenant states no dog can be outside the premise without being on a leash. The county ordinance states no owner will willfully allow his pet to run at large. The complaintant believed that since they lived in an HOA the county Ordinances did not apply and we make all our own rules. So in order to resolve this you need both parties present and come up with a solution. The owner was in control of the dog and come to find out there was a dog of the same type from the next neighborhood that was loose. The complaintant wanted the Board to take action even if the board never seen the violation. This was settled by getting both parties together. So it depends on the situation.

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

Posted By RonaldW on 01/22/2007 4:21 PM

Posted By HaroldS on 01/21/2007 7:55 PM

It would be great if we could hire an "inspector" who lives or has a business address outside our community to inspect the development a few times a week and generate the complaints. That way the name of the person who filed the complaint would be "John's HOA Inspections, LLC, P.O. Box 1234 Anytown, USA". I've been considering this but haven't heard of anyone doing this. Thoughts ?

There's no reason that I can think of why you can't hire an inspector to do the job. Just train them on what they need to look for and have them take a digital photo of the violation to include in the violation letter.

Inspections are usually part of a management company contract, however, and those inspections are usually once per week and should be random, with some being at night or early morning before daylight, depending on what you're inspecing for. I belive Roger does the inspections for his company.

It works best if a third party does the inspections because neighbors hate it when a neighbor turns them in. The AZ law has some merit, but it does put neighbors against neighbors, and can cause a lot of animosity. Many neighbors will not complain now because they are afraid of retribution, like having a car keyed, or other type of expensive vandalism.

Whereas the third person takes the initial heat from a person who is irate because of receiving a violation without it turning into a neighborly conflict.

Our manager inspects and sends the first letter. Ocassionally he gets an irate letter back with some lame reasons why they should not be violated; like I've lived here for 20 years and no one has complained, plus I never got a copy of the CC&R's, and on and on.

When that happens I respond to their letter with a personal letter and explain what we're doing to update our community and that CC&R compliance is part of the Association's responsibility for the purpose of keeping the neighborhood safe and desirable so that their property values will be maintained.

My letter does not take the place of a hearing if it gets to that. It is just designed to give a quick, resoned response to their initial rant, and take the wind our of their sails by letting them know in a very nice way that we listen to them, and that the President of the Association is responsible for instructing the MC to perform the compliance inspections, and will back them up.

Since we started this recently, we have experienced 90% compliance after the first letter. The others haven't gotten their second letter yet. I believe after they get the second letter, they will quickly comply.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By BobA on 01/22/2007 5:54 PM
......... The complaintant wanted the Board to take action even if the board never seen the violation. This was settled by getting both parties together. ....

I wouldn't begin to get into that one. If we cannot verify it, it's between the owners or the owners and the authorities.

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

......... If a violation is happening in the backyard and a neighbor complains, you can not just walk in there back yard and look for the violation.........

Agreed. Pretty much, if it cannot be seen from the street(s) it's not a violation in our community, but it it were, the neighbor would have to invite us into his property or house to witness the violation.

I'm not aware of any neighbor vs neighbor complaints since I've been on the board but there's lots of small but important homeowner against HOA violations (trash, lawn debris, lack of lawn maintenance, trailers and boats left out, etc.)

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

William, thanks for your input. We don't have an MC and I don't believe our association needs one except possibly for inspections. If I knew of an inspector I would certainly contact him or her for a quote. Of course, telling the membership that we were spending association funds to hire someone to catch them violating the CC&Rs might meet with some opposition (insert "wink" smiley here).

As it is, we have a couple of concerned homeowners (and myself) who are willing to walk, bicycle, or drive around the neighborhood from time to time looking for the obvious.

Ron
SC

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

Harold, almost anyone can be in inspector. You just have to tell them exactly what to look for. They should either take pencil notes or carry a small audio recorder, and a small digital camera to document the violation, then reduce it to a written report so you can send the violations.

The board is authorized to do what they feel is necessary for the best of the community, so if the board determines that it's best for the community to hire an inspector, and can justify the cost, then just do it.

A telephone call to several MC's may give you some idea on how you can accomplish this. Of course as you said, an alternative is for a couple of board or committee members to do it.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Posted By WilliamT on 01/23/2007 2:42 PM

Harold, almost anyone can be in inspector. You just have to tell them exactly what to look for. They should either take pencil notes or carry a small audio recorder, and a small digital camera to document the violation, then reduce it to a written report so you can send the violations.

The board is authorized to do what they feel is necessary for the best of the community, so if the board determines that it's best for the community to hire an inspector, and can justify the cost, then just do it.

A telephone call to several MC's may give you some idea on how you can accomplish this. Of course as you said, an alternative is for a couple of board or committee members to do it.

William, I (Ron) was the one who is looking for a solution. And yes, I carry a digital voice recorder and a camera if I feel the need to return and document a problem.

Ron
SC

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