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MoniseS (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I have a couple of quick questions in reference to HOA's, as I am a first-time homebuyer in Georgia. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1. Do/Should all board members need to have a title, i.e. President, V. President, Treasurer, Secrtary, etc.? It seems that the obvious answer is 'yes' but members are against it because they claim, "We all work together so there is no need to have titles." If there is a rule/law to this effect, could someone please point me in the right direction. Also, should each member have specific duties?

2. Is it better to be non-profit of LLC? I have been told by people in other subdivisions that their HOAs are non-profit, yet ours is LLC. The management company who runs our HOA manages approximately 50 (I am low-balling) other communities as LLCs.

3. Would the Open Records Act apply to information for my HOA? The management company does not want to provide residents with a copy of actual expenses incurred in 2006 but we would like to know what they were. I already know how to file one.

4. According to our covenants, every property owner has the right to a vote. Quite a few of our homes are owned by investros who live in CA, NJ, FL, etc. They are not concerned with the day-to-day issues, just making sure the rent is pain on the 1st. Is there any way we can get them more involved and more carefully selecting their tenants, i.e., those withouth criminal records. Also, who gets to vote at the meetings if the investor is not present, the tenant?

5. Our covenant also states that the newly elected board must meet within 10 days but does not list the consequences of not doing so. Is anyone familiar with this?

I know this is a lot, but I am also searching the net for answers as well. If you have any suggestions I would be most appreciative.

Thanks.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Monise:

1. Your documents will spell out what officers you need to have. Please refer to your CC&R's, you probably need a President, Secretary and Treasurer.

2. We are an LLC, I don't know the difference legally, but it seems to be working for us.

3. Residents are entitled to all HOA business, including financial records, meeting minutes, etc. IF your management company is refusing to show these documents to a resident, it is time to raise the red flag. They do have the right to charge you for copies. I wouldn't call it an Open Records Request because that typically lies with State institutions, but it is similar.

4. Good luck with this one, rental homes are difficult to control. There are better people on here than me to answer this question.

5. Most HOA's stipulate this, ours is 30 days. Roger can probably answer this better, he is our version of the Dictonary.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Monise, in answer to your questions:
1. No, some are simply directors. But unless your By-laws state otherwise there is usually at a minimum a president, VP, secretary and treasurer.
2. I don't know, check the difference as defined in Georgia.
3. Yes, most records and all financials should be available.
4. More involved? No.
Selecting tenants? Set up procedures, if allowed by your Declaration, which provides some control (approval) by the HOA.
allowed to vote? The owner or their proxy when allowed.
5. Yes. It is treated as a guideline and usually there is no consequences.
MoniseS (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
1. In terms of the HOA Board, the covenants DO stipulate that each officer have a title but the board has chosen (without a vote) to not operate in that manner. Wouldn't that then go into amending the by-laws, which requires a vote?

2. In terms of the difference between Non-profit and LLC, I meant in terms of the HOA. Is one more beneficial than the other. I will keep checking on that one though.

4. Our covenants state that owners are to notify the board upon the sale or lease of a lot within the community. Our board has received no such notice. The only reason I know that homes are available for lease/sale is because they are directly across the street from my house. We have no idea who is living in our community because investors bought out homes in the very beginning.

Thanks.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Monise, officers have a title while the other Board members are referred to as Directors. The Board is legally required to follow the By-laws and the other controlling documents. They should not be making decisions to the contrary and can be held accountable by the members.

Regarding sales, if you have a manditory assessment doesn't a title company contact the HOA for a status letter in your state prior to issuing title insurance? You can search this board for discussions on controlling rentals.
MoniseS (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The title company has probably contacted the management company but has not informed the Board because they (board) don't even know when a house is for sell, rent, lease. I have located this information on my own through the county assessor's office. I even gave them this info at the last meeting so they could contact the owner of record and inform them that tenants are not following by-laws. I don't think the management company has done so because if they did we would have seen an increase in revenue based upon fines, etc. this same management company manages 83 subdivisions in 16 Georgia counties so I find it hard to believe they are truly concerned about our day-to-day issues.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By MoniseS on 01/16/2007 1:58 PM
I don't think the management company has done so because if they did we would have seen an increase in revenue based upon fines, etc. this same management company manages 83 subdivisions in 16 Georgia counties so I find it hard to believe they are truly concerned about our day-to-day issues.

So why does your Board continue to use that management company?

MoniseS (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
At our very 1st meeting in Jan 2006, when the association was 'supposedly' turned over to the residents, someone asked the attorney if we could manage the HOA ourselves. He said yes, but it is a lot of work and we should really have an attorney or someone who is knowledgeable about this area. Now you know as well as I do that some people take EVERYTHING they are told as the gospel truth. Quite frankly, I was offended because he didn't know any of us well enough to know our professions, educational background, etc. We could have had a resident-attorney in our midst. I have talked to several people who live in self-managed associations and they say they only have the minor issues, i.e. being late with their assessments. From what I have read, everyone (regardless of state) has those same issues. I am not saying that all management companies are bad, but peopole are not satisfied with this one and the board wants to continue using their services even though the residents want something else.
JulieD (Arizona)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We've had the problem of certain homeowners not "liking" the management company and wanting them to do more or something in addition to what they do now. Since I'm now on the Board, I've become aware of some of the behind-the-scenes things they do like filing our taxes, articles of incorporation, etc. But what it basically boils down to is you get what you pay for. We don't pay a great amount to our management company so we don't get the same service as other HOAs may get.

My observation is that there always will be people that think they can do it better, cheaper, faster, etc. They have to have something/someone to complain about. Until you really delve into what the management company is doing for you, I would recommend staying with them. Changing on the whims of a few malcontents would probably do more harm than good until you get a really good feeling as to what the problems, if any, with the management company are.
admin
Posts: 24
Posted:
You may want to search this forum for the self manegement topics and also read the BLOG of our sponsor, Beth Grimm:
http://www.communityassociations.net/cacondoguru/

Read the following entry:
"December 19, 2006
Would You Drive A Car Without Any Training? What About Manage an HOA?"

Search Google for self managed HOA and you'll find more articles on it.

Remember that community management is a profession that people train for, get certified in and make careers of. Many people ask, What's the worst that could happen if you self-manage? Ms. Grimm's BLOG addresses it, but it seems that the Board could run afoul of the law, lose their shield of insurance coverage and become personally liable/responsible. How much money will each of you really save every year by doing it yourself? What is your time worth? Is it worth the risk you incur of personal liability and potential community impact? Is every board member willing to get the necessary education and commit the time needed? Will those members stay on and not get burned out by taking on a job with no pay?

If the answers to those questions lead you toward self management, then this is a good place to learn and so is communityassociations.net, caionline.org (esp. their bookstore) and many others.

Best Regards,
HOATalk.com
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
the admins are right, with a minor word change...

HOA management is a profession that SOME people get trained in, practice for, and do for a business. Those are the people you want for a MC. If the one you have isn't, get someone who is.

WHat you want to watch out for are the folks who claim to be professionals, who play at management, but didn't bother to get trained, certified, tested, authorized, etc... Unfortunately, there are many of those out there, who hang up a shingle and take money as a MC, but do very little "professional" grade work for their money.
MoniseS (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I understand that there are legitimate people out there and that is what I have been trying to communicate with the homeowners. However, they have been convinced that we 'need' to stay with this management company because we cannot handle everything ourselves. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am offended by the management company's assertion/assumption that we are not competent enough to make our decisions either on our own or to find another company.

This is my theory: If you refuse to give residents copies of association records, then you have something to hide. When I mentioned that I would submit an Open Records Request, then the person handling our subdivision was eager to comply. Why do I even have to resort to doing that? I guess I caught them off guard; they weren't expecting someone who purchased a home in a neighborhood starting at 130k to be knowledgeable about the law. This same company manages 83 communities in 16 Georgia counties. Our association pays him 9000 a year; I am confident that the more upscale neighborhoods pay more than that. He is racking up close to 1 million a year for mediocre service. At our very first meeting, several residents voiced concerns about children walking through yards and leaving trash on a daily basis. The owner of the management company, who is also an attorney, suggested that we sit in our windows and figure out who the perpetrators are. When I mentioned that most of us work (since we have to pay a mortgage and association dues) he suggested that we but cameras. I really deplore condescending attitudes, especially when people make assumtions about a group of people based on where they live, what they look like, and how much home they can afford. What's even worse: The builder has the same management company involved with 3 communities within a 6 mile radius. That is a little suspect to me.
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Posted By MoniseS on 01/16/2007 8:16 PM

Our association pays him 9000 a year


I don't know if you are paying too much, but the best way to find out is put out bids to three new MCs. Use an RFP that lists all services you need so you can compare properly. Search this forum for two words: request proposal

You will find all the info you need. Search the directory at CAIonline.org to find certified MCs as a starting point. There are good ones that are certified and non-certified, but it's a place to start.

Personally, I'd look at that $9,000 a couple ways. Your MCs main expenses would most likely be salaries and fixed overhead (office, phones, equipment, insurance, professional services (CPA, lawyer), etc). So what does $9,000 buy just in terms of an employee? Have a look here: http://www.communityassociations.net/adamen_rss.html

Looks like a salary of $50k might be a good place to start estimating for a community manager. Now add 20% for taxes, insurance, benefits, vacation, etc for a cost of $60k per employee. Each employee will have office, computer, phone and their share of other office expenses. Let's guess $1,000/month in expenses. Now, the person costs $72,000 to have around. Let's assume only 30% margin on sales (I have no idea what's actual in the industry) and your MCs cost to deliver $9,000 in services must be $6,300 or less for him to make 30% margin. Each employee will work about 230 days/year (after vacation, holiday, sick days, training, etc) or about 19 days/month. Bottom Line: The MCs staff can only afford to spend an average of 3.3 hours/week on your community to cover ALL services.

Of course, my numbers are totally wrong, but it should give some perspective on how to look at cost of services and what to expect. $9,000 sounds like a lot until you consider all the time and cost that goes into running the MC's business behind the scenes.

The best gauge is still to get 3 new bids with a good RFP and see what others are willing to do the work for.


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