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GregoryB (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Just looking for your thoughts

We have a home owner that hangs magnetic signs on there cars advertising there business. We have asked them to remove them while parked in there driveway but they refuse. Our doc's state that no sign may be placed on the lot with the exception of a for sale sign. They claim since they are there personel signs and they are on the cars not the lot they dont need to remove them.

Thanks
Greg
JillH (North Carolina)
Posts: 2
Posted:
That brings up a good case in point. We live in XYZ Plantation for example. We have XYZ Plantation license plates on the front of our cars. Based on what you are saying, the only thing that could be present on the premises is a virgin car with only license plates and tags as required by the state. Can we put XYZ Parking stickers, bumper stickers or political stickers on our cars or anything else that identifies or associates us with anything? It just seems like once you make one exception, you open up a pandora's box for a lot of other things. I would be interesting in seeing what some of the magic answers are to some of these items.

Jim Horn
Bolivia, NC
JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412
Posted:
You will find a long string of posts regarding this very issue on this website. In my opinion, the 'no signs' statement of the covenants refers to signs in a yard and not on a car. This rule was probably created to keep the community free from clutter and in a more neat & orderly appearance.

Our covenants state that no commercial vehicles will be parked on the property. We had a number of discussions as to what defines a commercial vehicle with no clear outcome. Is it a vehicle of a certain description, a vehcile with a business name on it, a vehcile with a particular license plate, a vehicle of a certain weight? At one point, years ago, our board believed any vehicle with a magnetic business sign on it was considered a commercial vehcile. This didn't go over very well.

It is one of those things that needs clarification. Rewriting of your documents may be needed if it is something the community feels so strongly about.
LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341
Posted:
We also prohibit all signs with the exception of 1 for sale sign on a lot. Our association CCr's also prohibit vehicles bearing commericial advertisement/signs. If your CCR's do not, I would say should be able to keep them on, and you should clarify or update the bylaws.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By GregoryB on 01/16/2007 8:31 AM

Just looking for your thoughts

We have a home owner that hangs magnetic signs on there cars advertising there business. We have asked them to remove them while parked in there driveway but they refuse. Our doc's state that no sign may be placed on the lot with the exception of a for sale sign. They claim since they are there personel signs and they are on the cars not the lot they dont need to remove them.

Thanks
Greg


They are still "signs", right? Does it matter if they are installed on a vehicle or on a wooden or metal post? Does it matter where on the lot they are placed (driveway or lawn)? Not in my opinion. If they painted the vehicle with the advertising information rather than having it on a magnetic sign that might he harder to deal with.


Ron
SC
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
I don't follow the logic on some of these post.
A commercial vehicle is what it is. With the exception of Police, or Fire official cars, in our community you are NOT permitted to park a vehicle of any kind on the premises overnight.
We had homeowners who worked for heating/plumbing companies, Medical deliveries vans, construction companies, and a few others bringing their work vehicles into the community.
"SOLUTION" They were told to purchase magnetic strips that covered over "ALL" lettering while in the community over night.
Because it is in our covenants, most complied, but two would not. That is "NOT" until they received a $25.00 fine and told it would increase to $50.00 and then $75.00, and up.
We have a renter who brings his cab home. We notified the homeowner that we would fine them, so the cab is now parked on the county street, off our property, and they have a long walk into their residence.
Tough, but the community looks a whole lot better for it.

If you are not zoned commercial, why would you want these vehicles in your community?.

Jim
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
OOPS! Meant to say we do not permit (COMMERCIAL) vehicles of any kind on our property over night.

JIm
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
You can develop a rule that "clarifies" the Sign covenant. You can say that signs may not be placed on any portion of the lot including on the vehicles of the owners that are parked the driveway or on the street, or otherwise visible to other homeowners. Vehicles with signs, or writing of any kind, may be parked in the homeowner garage.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By JamesC on 03/04/2007 2:47 PM
.............
We had homeowners who worked for heating/plumbing companies, Medical deliveries vans, construction companies, and a few others bringing their work vehicles into the community.
"SOLUTION" They were told to purchase magnetic strips that covered over "ALL" lettering while in the community over night.


That would cover the "sign" argument, but what about ladders, pipe racks, plastic dead bugs, etc. on the vehicles?


Ron
SC
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
Ron:
Along with the rule to cover all lettering over with white magnetic strips while parked overnight, the rule is that no vehicle can exceed a maximum twenty foot length. This length includes the ladders, etc:
Now that we have addressed this issue, it is working very well in our community.
We do not have garages in our community, so I would think if you did, and the vehicle was kept in the garage, it would be a completely different story.

Jim
PaulH3 (Connecticut)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Greg,

If a rule is ambiguous, it can be contested and it may be difficult to defend. In our docs, we have two very specific sections that deal with this.

"Section 6.3 - Limitations on Types of Vehicles. No vehicles of any kind other than automobiles and trucks having a carrying capacity of one ton or less, may be parked on any part of the exterior of the Common and Limited Common Elements. Prohibited are such vehicles as campers, trailers, boats, vehicles with more than four wheels, trucks over one ton, any off-road vehicle, and/or any commercial plated vehicle. Such vehicles may, however, be kept in garages with the door closed provided that you do not require any additional parking spaces."

"Section 6.5 - Prohibited Vehicles. Vehicles that display a trademark, business logo, for sale sign, or any advertising message shall not park overnight on any of the Common or Limited Common Elements, except those vehicles which are temporarily on the Property for the purpose of serving the Property itself, or one of the Units thereon."

If someone in our development has magnetic signs, they take them off. If they have painted or vinyl items on the vehicle that cannot be easyily removed, they cover them with blank magnetics.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Posted By RonaldW on 03/04/2007 1:34 PM

[quote]Posted By GregoryB on 01/16/2007 8:31 AM

Just looking for your thoughts

We have a home owner that hangs magnetic signs on there cars advertising there business. We have asked them to remove them while parked in there driveway but they refuse. Our doc's state that no sign may be placed on the lot with the exception of a for sale sign. They claim since they are there personel signs and they are on the cars not the lot they dont need to remove them.

Thanks
Greg


They are still "signs", right? Does it matter if they are installed on a vehicle or on a wooden or metal post? Does it matter where on the lot they are placed (driveway or lawn)? Not in my opinion. If they painted the vehicle with the advertising information rather than having it on a magnetic sign that might he harder to deal with.

[/quote]

GregoryB,

I have read the previously written posts and it is my opinion that the homeowner in violation is to do what ever is necessary to comply.

I certainly agree with what some one had posted earlier, saying that the documents say no signs on the property, not the vehicle, but then again the vehicle is park on the property, besides many CC&R states NO parking of commercial vehicles. Period!

Let him argue that fact. He has told you that it is his work vehicle. So in other words he is telling you it is a commercial vehicle.

I would send him a violation letter advice him of the CC&R he is in violation of, and tell him that he’s is advice to comply with such rules or else face a fine.

I would even go as far as to tow the vehicle with warning of course. If, your state allows such action to be taken by an association. I would certain consider this. It is in extreme cases, but not one to eliminate completely.

I would think this type of situation could be settled with a simple discussion, a compromise, if you will! I would ask him to either park in the garage or removed the signs while parked in the driveway over night.

Best of luck
Chuck W.


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
You can amend the Rules very easily. One solution is to amend ethe Sign rules to state that no signs may be posted on the lot or on vehicles on the lot or parked in the street.

Of course you have to state what signs are allowed also.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By PaulH3 on 03/05/2007 6:34 AM

Greg,

If a rule is ambiguous, it can be contested and it may be difficult to defend. In our docs, we have two very specific sections that deal with this.

..........................
"Section 6.5 - Prohibited Vehicles. Vehicles that display a trademark, business logo, for sale sign, or any advertising message shall not park overnight on any of the Common or Limited Common Elements, .........


And that in itself is ambiguous. My neighbor is a Mary Kay distributor. She sold enough product that they gave her a car to drive. On the rear is a small Mary Kay logo. Virtually any car or truck purchased at a dealership will have a logo for that dealership pemanently fastened to the trunk or bumper. It may also have license plate frames with an advertising message.

Small advertising messages to be sure but someone who wanted to make an issue of it could. The perfect set of CC&Rs has yet to be written.


Ron
SC
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By RonaldW on 03/06/2007 6:37 AM
The perfect set of CC&Rs has yet to be written.


Ronald, this is true. Many of the examples you have provided are not a nuisance to anyone so they do not even get consideration. And when the Board does consider violations hopefully they use discretion and wisdom. Otherwise we may see BOD's poor decisions in the news as ridiculus actions. An example was the BOD issuing a violation for a wreath hung through the holidays in Pagosa Springs, CO. Fortunately, that BOD ate crow and backed away from their decision when it was broadcast nationally.

DarleneL1 (Florida)
Posts: 97
Posted:
There was a case in Florida with regard to this item. A homeowner was parking a Hummer in their driveway with advertisement on it for the business they owned. It was not a vehicle used for business, and the community sued in an attempt to have them considered signs on the Hummer.

Important part!! The HOA lost!! Any vehicle not used in the day to day business for doing the job, is not a work vehicle and may have writing on it. You may want to check out the lawsuit:

www.ccfj.net/HOAFLTurtleCreeklawsuit.html

This may assist.

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