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KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
We recently rec'd a letter from our most vocal homeowner thru an attorney. This homeowner complains but does little to nothing to help. Her first words out of her mouth when she bought the home and was told dues were going to increase was "well, I'd never bought in here if I'd known my dues were going to increase" and then said she would consider volunteering to be an officer, but I won't enforce the rules. All this without ever having read the CCR's, by-law, rules or even ever owing in a HOA. This person is in her mid 60's and has owed several homes prior to purchasing this one.

This letter was 6 pages long!! It outlines all the issues she has with one of the board members because she refuses to communicate with the board members, even though we have tried several times to open communications. She has said she won't come to meetings unless "I get fined for not coming". Her comments to other owners who have tried to get her to sit down with the board is "I've done nothing wrong". She recently interferred with the termination of the mgmt company and was fined for costs the HOA had to incurr against the mgmt company who refused to provide financial records to the association after termination.

Now tell us why if she wants to open communication with the board, would she spend the time, money and effort to have the attorney send a 6 page letter? All it contains is her rants about everything that she doesn't like about the HOA but the attorney also says things like she wants to improve relationships and that the letter is not intended to complain or be accusatory. Real hard not to take it that way. There are quite a few things that are incorrect and flat out not true.

The letter does not ask for a response in any way, nor was a copy sent to the HOA attorney, so it basically is just a bunch of fluff! We plan to respond to each item in memo to the HOA file only. At the next Board meeting should it be addressed? Keep in mind it was only sent to one board member.

Your thoughts and opinions?

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
She paid an attorney to write up her compaints on his letterhead.

Ignore it.

In fact, ignore her altogether. She has one vote.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
She paid an attorney to write up her compaints on his letterhead.

Ignore it.

In fact, ignore her altogether. She has one vote.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If you dont like her, thats fine. But she may have some good points in her letter. Feel free to discuss things in the letter that might be constructive to discuss. Ignore the rest of the rant.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
β€˜At the next Board meeting should it be addressed? Keep in mind it was only sent to one board member.’

Yes, I think the Board should address it even though she sent her letter to only one Board member. You did not say to whom the letter was addressed. Why not?

Was not there anything positive in her suggestions? You seem to bashing her as much as she is bashing you and that I do not like. Yes, she may be wrong – or even emotionally unstable- but clearly she has some concerns you seem to dismiss in a hurry. You know, I believe there are always two sides of the story. And, I do think she has her rights what ever they may be. Ignoring her may not be the most polite thing to do.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I had a member that I always said would complain if the sun was out during the day. The letter should be read at the board meeting as to not "hide" the information from the rest of the board or membership. The right to privacy is void here as the letter was addressed to the "HOA". A HOA is it's membership. You may want to paraphrase it some or just make it available for those interested to read the whole thing. I would try to contain it to in-house and only at the meeting.

The response should be short and sweet. Basically, I would respond by stating the letter was read to the board at the OPEN board meeting for everyone to hear. The board is now aware of the issues contained in the letters and would like to entertain a chance to address the issue at the OPEN meeting amongst all the membership. If she doesn't want to address the entire HOA membership at the OPEN meeting in person, then understand any communications sent to the HOA board will continue to be read at the meetings without her further input to defend her statements. Decisions will be made amongst those in attendance on how to make changes and react to her issues.

You may also want to express the idea that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So don't live in fear of a lawsuit from people like this. Most of the time they are full of hot air and nothing behind it. If they do sue, then simply file a counter-suit. It's cheaper on the HOA to counter-sue than file suit against a member. Plus if she's not paying dues, then lien/foreclosure are a much much stronger tool than a lawsuit.

I think once she gets the concept that her letters aren't that private and her threats are taken empty, she may change her tune. Never be afraid of a lawsuit unless the HOA deserves it...

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Do not ignore the letter!

Draft a response addressing each issue one by one. Then have your attorney review the response and make suggestions. Then, after making changes your attorney advises, send the responce to her attorney.

If the member has a friend who is an attorney willing to assist or if the member is paying a lawyer to assist, the issues have now gone into potential litigation (based on receiving a letter from an attorney) and you need to treat it as such.

Yes, I agree it sounds stupid to have to pay your attorney to review the boards response. However, you also need to make sure that you don't inadvertently do something to make the issue worse than it is.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/21/2011 8:38 PM
You may also want to express the idea that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors.

Very true. But, some people just don't care.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am not saying to dismiss this letter at all. I am saying address it in a manner of which is professional and open. That is to say, let people know that sending letters to the HOA is NOT "backdoor" business. (Unless it's truly a sensitive legal matter). If you send a letter to the BOARD, then the board has to address it in their meetings. Since most board meetings are OPEN meetings, then expect the letter to be addressed in front of everyone.

Your HOA may want to use an attorney to address the response letter, but isn't always necessary to do so. It's a good idea but then you can easily diverge yourselves into the endless legal loop and expense of nothing. This is why I made this change in our HOA. If someone had an idea or wanted to address something, I told them come to the board meeting if you want that to happen. If not, then expect it not to happen or your letter to be read to everyone. It became pretty much understood if you wanted something done in the HOA, you had to be involved in the HOA to have it done. Letters from attorney's were all treated the same way. We didn't keep it a secret from the membership and responses given by the majority sentiment of what was discussed.


Former HOA President
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Melissa is correct in my opinion regarding acknowledging the letter, maybe posting in the minutes so that it's on the record and move on. There is no obligation to cater to people's boredom. Think of the energy this homeowner is expending when there appears to be no remedy expected, only the perpetuation of an HOA feud.

This letter is garbage. Make the woman come to a meeting, behave herself and address the public like an adult. Then thank her and continue with board business. Anything less should not lead to expanded discussion. I imagine most of your board members really have other things they really want to do with their lives than HOA drama.

If your homeowner has the money, any lawyer would have the time - especially a $25 per month pre-paid legal lawyer where written letters are part of the stock subscription service.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Tim has the best advice in my opinion, draft a response to her letter, have it reviewed and sent to her attorney. You don't ignore letters from attorneys unless you like to get served with papers. I don't think reading this letter in open meeting is appropriate. If the lady wants to act like a kid let her, the board needs to be professional and the adult in this situation.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Karen,

As Tim suggested, don't ignore the letter. However, I would go one step further and have your attorney draft a response.

I've been through similar situations before. With no disrespect to attorneys, they are bullies. Attorneys operate by intimidation. (And an attorney friend of mine actually said that.)

First, you don't know if this member paid the attorney or not. It could have been sent by a friend who is an attorney who was willing to write the letter for no fee. A 6-page letter is not cheap when written by an attorney for a fee. On the other hand, as a favor for a friend, especially if that's all that needs to be done to get what is wanted, attorney might be willing to do it. The problem is, you really don't know what your dealing with here. The member mat be serious and may be willing to pursue the matter. Then again, it might be garbage. You really don't know. Also, your board doesn't know the law, and the member's attorney knows that and can use that fact against you.

Best to play it safe and have the HOA attorney draft a response. Yes, it will cost, but it will also put the member's attorney on notice that you're willing to turn the matter over to your own attorney. If the member really doesn't have a case, the matter will be dropped. If the member does have a case and the member and the attorney are willing to pursue it, well, that's what D&O insurance is for.

I once received a threatening letter from an attorney. I was fairly certain it was garbage, but I also know a response from me to the attorney would be blown off. So, I contacted an attorney who was as expert in the matter and had him draft a response. It cost me some money, but I never heard any more on the matter.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I would be irate if I'm a dues payer and my dues money is being spent to have an attorney draft a response letter to a woman who WILL NOT speak with the board or show any inclination of good-faith communication. I can support good drama but there's a limit, like when it costs unnecessary expenditure of HOA funds - which I'm betting are not in abundance.

Invite this woman to speak on the record at a regular called board meeting. Then her grievances, if they're legitimate, can be noted for the record and addressed by the board. Anything more than that - as Step One - is expensive overkill. This person wants attention. Show her a little and avoid having your content HOA members subsidize craziness.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I would be irate if I'm a dues payer and my dues money is being spent to have an attorney draft a response letter to a woman who WILL NOT speak with the board or show any inclination of good-faith communication. I can support good drama but there's a limit, like when it costs unnecessary expenditure of HOA funds - which I'm betting are not in abundance.

Invite this woman to speak on the record at a regular called board meeting. Then her grievances, if they're legitimate, can be noted for the record and addressed by the board. Anything more than that - as Step One - is expensive overkill. This person wants attention. Show her a little and avoid having your content HOA members subsidize craziness.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I would be irate if I'm a dues payer and my dues money is being spent to have an attorney draft a response letter to a woman who WILL NOT speak with the board or show any inclination of good-faith communication. I can support good drama but there's a limit, like when it costs unnecessary expenditure of HOA funds - which I'm betting are not in abundance.

Invite this woman to speak on the record at a regular called board meeting. Then her grievances, if they're legitimate, can be noted for the record and addressed by the board. Anything more than that - as Step One - is expensive overkill. This person wants attention. Show her a little and avoid having your content HOA members subsidize craziness.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
HOAs are NOT kindergartens.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/23/2011 10:01 AM
I would be irate if I'm a dues payer and my dues money is being spent to have an attorney draft a response letter to a woman who WILL NOT speak with the board or show any inclination of good-faith communication. I can support good drama but there's a limit, like when it costs unnecessary expenditure of HOA funds - which I'm betting are not in abundance.

Invite this woman to speak on the record at a regular called board meeting. Then her grievances, if they're legitimate, can be noted for the record and addressed by the board. Anything more than that - as Step One - is expensive overkill. This person wants attention. Show her a little and avoid having your content HOA members subsidize craziness.

I believe in some cases a lawyer is necessary. I belive this may be one of those cases. We are fortunate to have a lawyer on the Board. Although I know we could not us her as our lawyer if we were ever sued. But she does give good advise.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
"The letter does not ask for a response in any way, nor was a copy sent to the HOA attorney, so it basically is just a bunch of fluff!"

If a board member is a lawyer offering unofficial advice for free....go for it, I guess. But, this is someone who wants attention, especially by offering complaints and refusing board help to eliminate those "problems." That negates any seriousness of this property owner feud with her HOA board member. By the way, aren't board issues/complaints generally brought before the entire board and not one person (with their one vote)?
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/21/2011 8:38 PM
I had a member that I always said would complain if the sun was out during the day. The letter should be read at the board meeting as to not "hide" the information from the rest of the board or membership. The right to privacy is void here as the letter was addressed to the "HOA". A HOA is it's membership. You may want to paraphrase it some or just make it available for those interested to read the whole thing. I would try to contain it to in-house and only at the meeting.

The response should be short and sweet. Basically, I would respond by stating the letter was read to the board at the OPEN board meeting for everyone to hear. The board is now aware of the issues contained in the letters and would like to entertain a chance to address the issue at the OPEN meeting amongst all the membership. If she doesn't want to address the entire HOA membership at the OPEN meeting in person, then understand any communications sent to the HOA board will continue to be read at the meetings without her further input to defend her statements. Decisions will be made amongst those in attendance on how to make changes and react to her issues.

You may also want to express the idea that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So don't live in fear of a lawsuit from people like this. Most of the time they are full of hot air and nothing behind it. If they do sue, then simply file a counter-suit. It's cheaper on the HOA to counter-sue than file suit against a member. Plus if she's not paying dues, then lien/foreclosure are a much much stronger tool than a lawsuit.

I think once she gets the concept that her letters aren't that private and her threats are taken empty, she may change her tune. Never be afraid of a lawsuit unless the HOA deserves it...

Melissa,

This letter was not addressed to the HOA, it was sent to one Board Member only and it definitely targeted to this one Board member. "I have been contacted by ... who perceives that communication between the two of your has been very difficult and hopes that an outside opinion regarding the manner in which disagreements have arisen might be helpful to avoid problems and make living in the same neighborhood with one another more pleasant for both of you going forward."

The issue is this person perception is that this one board member is the cause of all her misunderstanding and drama. This Board member is the only one who will stand up to her so it was directed at this Board member only.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/21/2011 8:38 PM
I had a member that I always said would complain if the sun was out during the day. The letter should be read at the board meeting as to not "hide" the information from the rest of the board or membership. The right to privacy is void here as the letter was addressed to the "HOA". A HOA is it's membership. You may want to paraphrase it some or just make it available for those interested to read the whole thing. I would try to contain it to in-house and only at the meeting.

The response should be short and sweet. Basically, I would respond by stating the letter was read to the board at the OPEN board meeting for everyone to hear. The board is now aware of the issues contained in the letters and would like to entertain a chance to address the issue at the OPEN meeting amongst all the membership. If she doesn't want to address the entire HOA membership at the OPEN meeting in person, then understand any communications sent to the HOA board will continue to be read at the meetings without her further input to defend her statements. Decisions will be made amongst those in attendance on how to make changes and react to her issues.

You may also want to express the idea that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So don't live in fear of a lawsuit from people like this. Most of the time they are full of hot air and nothing behind it. If they do sue, then simply file a counter-suit. It's cheaper on the HOA to counter-sue than file suit against a member. Plus if she's not paying dues, then lien/foreclosure are a much much stronger tool than a lawsuit.

I think once she gets the concept that her letters aren't that private and her threats are taken empty, she may change her tune. Never be afraid of a lawsuit unless the HOA deserves it...

Melissa,

This letter was not addressed to the HOA, it was sent to one Board Member only and it definitely targeted to this one Board member. "I have been contacted by ... who perceives that communication between the two of your has been very difficult and hopes that an outside opinion regarding the manner in which disagreements have arisen might be helpful to avoid problems and make living in the same neighborhood with one another more pleasant for both of you going forward."

The issue is this person perception is that this one board member is the cause of all her misunderstanding and drama. This Board member is the only one who will stand up to her so it was directed at this Board member only.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 10/23/2011 9:34 AM
Karen,

As Tim suggested, don't ignore the letter. However, I would go one step further and have your attorney draft a response.

I've been through similar situations before. With no disrespect to attorneys, they are bullies. Attorneys operate by intimidation. (And an attorney friend of mine actually said that.)

First, you don't know if this member paid the attorney or not. It could have been sent by a friend who is an attorney who was willing to write the letter for no fee. A 6-page letter is not cheap when written by an attorney for a fee. On the other hand, as a favor for a friend, especially if that's all that needs to be done to get what is wanted, attorney might be willing to do it. The problem is, you really don't know what your dealing with here. The member mat be serious and may be willing to pursue the matter. Then again, it might be garbage. You really don't know. Also, your board doesn't know the law, and the member's attorney knows that and can use that fact against you.

Best to play it safe and have the HOA attorney draft a response. Yes, it will cost, but it will also put the member's attorney on notice that you're willing to turn the matter over to your own attorney. If the member really doesn't have a case, the matter will be dropped. If the member does have a case and the member and the attorney are willing to pursue it, well, that's what D&O insurance is for.

I once received a threatening letter from an attorney. I was fairly certain it was garbage, but I also know a response from me to the attorney would be blown off. So, I contacted an attorney who was as expert in the matter and had him draft a response. It cost me some money, but I never heard any more on the matter.


I have worked with attorneys for 35 years and I know what they do. I also know this attorney who sent the letter and if this homeowner wanted to spend the money to have him draft the letter to one Board member and not the entire HOA Board, so be it. The Board feels they do not have to justify by responding. She had burden of proof if she wants to file a lawsuit let her.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 10/23/2011 9:34 AM
Karen,

As Tim suggested, don't ignore the letter. However, I would go one step further and have your attorney draft a response.

I've been through similar situations before. With no disrespect to attorneys, they are bullies. Attorneys operate by intimidation. (And an attorney friend of mine actually said that.)

First, you don't know if this member paid the attorney or not. It could have been sent by a friend who is an attorney who was willing to write the letter for no fee. A 6-page letter is not cheap when written by an attorney for a fee. On the other hand, as a favor for a friend, especially if that's all that needs to be done to get what is wanted, attorney might be willing to do it. The problem is, you really don't know what your dealing with here. The member mat be serious and may be willing to pursue the matter. Then again, it might be garbage. You really don't know. Also, your board doesn't know the law, and the member's attorney knows that and can use that fact against you.

Best to play it safe and have the HOA attorney draft a response. Yes, it will cost, but it will also put the member's attorney on notice that you're willing to turn the matter over to your own attorney. If the member really doesn't have a case, the matter will be dropped. If the member does have a case and the member and the attorney are willing to pursue it, well, that's what D&O insurance is for.

I once received a threatening letter from an attorney. I was fairly certain it was garbage, but I also know a response from me to the attorney would be blown off. So, I contacted an attorney who was as expert in the matter and had him draft a response. It cost me some money, but I never heard any more on the matter.


I have worked with attorneys for 35 years and I know what they do. I also know this attorney who sent the letter and if this homeowner wanted to spend the money to have him draft the letter to one Board member and not the entire HOA Board, so be it. The Board feels they do not have to justify by responding. She had burden of proof if she want to pursue it legally then do so and quit being so petty and childish.

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