Being Billed for Attorney Contact - WA State

Started by VaH • 10 replies • 1715 views

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VaH (Washington)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Can a (State of Washington) HOA bill a Board Member (at the time) when the Board member contacted the Assoc. Attorney to ask questions about (perceived) proper/improper actions/inactions of the President?

2 members felt A responsibility to find out direction/answers & the only place we "thought" we could turn to was the attorney. We thought the attorney worked for 1) the HOA, first and primarily 2) THe President/The Board secondarily

The Atty about took my head off when they were contacted; was extremely curt/gruff and said that I was wrong / atty works for and on behalf of, and represents " THE President", not the Board, not the HOA, per se.

THe President has now sent this bill to the HOA CPA, after 6 months, and directed it placed on my personal account, October 2011. It is accruing penalties and interest, until paid. The ATTORNEY, however, was paid long ago. This is the President, who is also the Treasurer, wanting reimbursement from me, back to the HOA--says it was a "personal" item and claims I had "no right" to call the attorney. And pretty much the attorney agrees.

SO therein lies the disagreement. I didn't talk to the attorney about anything personal. Our ONLY topic was the actions of the president.

I cant locate anything in our rules/bylaws/ccr's covering this topic other than an area that talks about "Board members present and past... indemnification of all expenses and attorneys fees"...but this paragraph is under the guise that the Board/HOA is in litigation or being sued.

It seems silly to have to go to Small Claims court to fight this; but I'm not seeing much option(s) here. I have obviously quit the Board, and put my business/commercial units up for sale (NOT RESIDENTIAL/Living...this is BUSINESS/Commercial)

KennethS2 (California)
Posts: 36

Posted:

The Attorney is paid by and works for HOA, not the President. If he works for the President than the President should pay the bills. In our HOA we have a policy that and contact with the Attorney goes through the President so that we are not billed for items the complete board does not know about. If you are having a problem with the President the rest of the board should, as one body, contact the Attorney and explain to him his duty is to the HOA or he can be replaced.

Ken

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

2 members felt A responsibility to find out direction/answers & the only place we "thought" we could turn to was the attorney.
Va,
I am not quite sure how to unbundle the problem you are describing. Nevertheless, if there was the BOD meeting and the directors agreed you should pay the expense and it is documented in the minutes, may be you may have to pay it. Not because the attorney works for the president, but perhaps because you did not document your concerns properly. Phone calls to an attorney usually do not cut the mustard. But, again, I may be totally wrong.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

It appears you purchased something that you were not authorized to purchase. This something was legal services. Just because your HOA has a lawyer, doesn't mean you are authorized on the HOA for billing. It would be no different than if you bought a new lawnmower for the HOA on your own without the consent or pre-approval of the HOA and then expected reimbursement. An unauthorized expense is not reimbursable if the hoa refuses to pay.

While I do feel bad for you its unlikely a small claims court judge would rule in your favor...... but you never know.

PS. If you do sue in small claims, be prepared for the HOA to counter sue you for the new legal fees they incurred getting ready for your small claims case in addition to the old fees you owed.

I know its not what you wanted to hear, just giving my opinion.

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251

Posted:

Your attorney is full of it and the president is playing hard ball
- If the attorney felt that your contact was inappropriate he/she should've pointed it out, reject the inquiry and not bill you for it.
- If attorney answered the questions he/she acknowledged that you are representing the board and acting in a capacity of a director
- not only the attorney should've answered your questions (especially if there was more than one member concerned) your question and her response should be protected by the attorney / client privilege and not be disclosed to the president, since it was about his/her behavior
- a president cannot direct a CPA to place this charge on your account. there would have to be a board resolution to do so.

If anything the board may decide not to pay this bill to the attorney stating that the services were provided to your personally and not withing an existing agreement. In turn the attorney may bill you directly, which is very not likely because it's clear that your questions wasn't personal and was within your normal responsibilities and duties.

don't forget, that while a president may have some day to day responsibilities and they make some decisions they are still just one vote on the board.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

VaH,

The Association attorney works for the legal entity known as your Association. The Board of Directors is the contact for this legal entity. The attorney's do not work for any individual member. Granted, most members do not realize this, but this is how it works.

We had an instance where the Association was billed for a 15min conversation because a potential buyer contacted the attorney (our registered agent) to ask questions. This led to a slew of changes within my Association to prevent this issue from being repeated. Bottom line was, the Association still had to pay for the attorney's time.

Personal observation, I would be encouraging the Board to seek new legal council if the attorney believe that they work for the President and not the Association. The President may be the face of the corporation and the main contact for the board but the President is an officer appointed by the Board.

Appeal this to the whole board. The bill should not have been considered your personal responsibility based on the opinion of one individual. It should be a board decision.

Tim

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Tim is 100% correct in his advice. The lawyer isn't the HOA's member personal individual attorney. They represent the WHOLE of the HOA. That is why if you sue your HOA, your suing yourself and your neighbors. Plus the HOA attorney is retained by the HOA to represent it against you. So you have to get your own council.

I think many people confuse this when it comes to having a HOA attorney. The bill may or may not be your responsibilty to pay. I would first address this with the board as suggested. However, not knowing the full circumstances, the bill could truly end up in your lap. If you had problems with the President or other BOARD member, it should have been addressed internally rather than externally. If it hurts everyone, then everyone should have grouped together to take the appropriate action the rules of the HOA allow. Which is to have a vote to remove the person if necessary.

Former HOA President

VaH (Washington)
Posts: 4

Posted:

THanks for all the answers

The Board was billed by the attorney and atty was paid 6 mos ago. This is them now trying to pass the bill onto us.

At the time all this happened there were 3 Board members, only. We all had an agreement that none of us would contact the atty without notifying the other board members so that we could either submit our questions, or, attend the meeting with the president. She chose to have a private meeting and not tell us. THis is evidenced by the bill that was sent by the atty to the HOA and was paid for by the time we had the Annual meeting....so it 'came out' in the Treasurer's report. (the president is also the treas.)

The president got the atty to advise her that we needed 5 board members and explained to her something about "at will" and "at large". Us other 2 members inquired but she ram-rodded the meeting and wouldn't answer questions other than to say the atty said we must (and our governing docs do say "Shall" not "may") so great we now have 50% of the HOA on the board! (that's a good thing, I agree) It was conveyed, however, that these other members did not want ANY responsibilities......

Except that...the very next day, a whole host of items had been 'back-logged' that now needed voting on.....emails were going to all 5 of us. Except the new members were not emailing in an "open fashion" so we could no longer see opinions//thoughts/answers. THe president, apparently advised by the atty ??? said that he/she was tallying the votes and letting us know what the results were?

Up to that point we had always operated in an "open fashion" ...none of this new operation was ever discussed

So, seeing 2 board members thought this was wrong and we needed/wanted advice I contacted the atty who told me that the president has all the power and can do whatever he/she wants (in a nutshell)

I say: that I had a duty and an obligation to at least try and see if this was legal and operating properly. I say that we all originally had an agreement not to contact the atty without first notifying the other board members, however, ...the president went and contacted the atty without proper notification, so, what gives the president more rights to operate in this fashion, contact the atty, have the HOA Pay for his/her meeting, what gives the president more rights vs. any other board member?

BUt when I did the same thing...they are passing on the bill to me?

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251

Posted:

It sounds like you are having problems with your president and the board supports you. One option you might have is to remove the present board member from the president position and replace him/her. General membership votes for board members, board in turn decides who will be serving in what capacity.

VaH (Washington)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Steve, I don't understand. What is the difference...if the BOARD had an agreement that none of the 3 of us would contact the atty without notifying the other board members of the date/time.....what give the president the authority to go behind the Boards agreement, contact the attorney and have the HOA pay the attorney bill.

I did the same thing, spent 15 minutes asking if the actions of the president were right....and he sent the bill to the HOA. THe HOA paid his bill 6 months ago; the NEW board (remember I was on the Board at the time all this was going on)....the new board/president have now decided to place this fee on my personal account.

COuld you please expand your answer, I'm just not 'seeing it" - not seeing the difference in our actions.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

VaH you situation is pretty messy. Sounds like you need a new president, separate treasurer and new attorney. I had no idea the problem was so complicated until your replies.

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