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TimF5 (Ohio)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I have a Condo for sale and the purchaser has a son with Autisim. The second floor balcony overlooks a beautiful lake. The purcharers concerned the railing is only 32 to 34 inches high and is afraid his son could fall over it.
We plan on asking if we can extend the railing to 4 foot for safty reasons. I have been told that may not happen, I ask if they deny our request and he should fall how could they defend a potential law suit.
The owner of this Condo has a Husband in a nursing home and needs to sell this home to pay for her husband.Please advise me of how to proceed.
Regards,
Tim Fent
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Tim...that is difficult, I believe the IBF for railings is only 26 inches tall which if you truly look at it is very low, not sure if that applies in all cases. In your request I would cite the happenings recently in major league baseball with the tragedy in Texas where a guy fell over a 34 inch rail and died and also the Rangers response in raising it, I believe to 42 inches. I would stay grounded in your argument and argue the safety factor. Autism being a disability I would also reference that as a reasonable attempt to keep their child safe.

Good luck.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Tim,

Building codes change all of the time and your installed railing seems mighty low for todays minimum requirements from City and County codes in your area. Do check with your local building permit department to see what railing heights must be. There is also a space requirement between spindles if you have that with your current railings.. Ours here in my rural area are 36 inches. If we go higher than that, we are required to install a cross support at 16 inches high. Safety is of the utmost concern and perhaps the child can be classified under the ADA for use in an argument with your Condo association.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If denied, tell the buyer they could continue to pursue raising the balcony on their own, but it may take some time. If they want you to do all the work, look for another buyer. This could drag out for years and you need to sell right away. If you start talking lawsuits, the HOA may stop talking to you and route all communication through a lawyer. This could also delay you in selling.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Tim...i am not smart enough to know if this is a Fair Housing issue, I do know that autism is a disability that qualifies you for services. If they deny you it may be worth checking into that aspect of it as on the surface this qualifies as a reasonable accomodation for safety reasons.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Tim,

This would fall under the Americans With Disabilities Act to make reasonable accomodations.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Tim, autism in this case may fall under a disability (I guess depending on severity) and if such would be protected under fair housing laws. In this case the purchaser might be responsible for paying to raise the railing but the request cannot be denied.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The purchaser would be responsible after they bought the property to apply for the variance with the HOA. However, I would discuss this idea of raising the railing with the fire department and building codes people. It sounds kind of simple to raise the railing but in doing so can cause other issues. There are reasons why the threshold of height of certain items are the way they are. A taller railing can effect how the fire department can enter the home in case of fire/emergency.

I wonder why people would purchase a home with such a significant concern and then demand accommodation to their circumstances. If you have an autistic child or other handicap, you should shop for a home that wouldn't be such a danger. A person in a wheelchair wouldn't buy a home on a steep hill unless they paid for their own modifications to live there. Why would someone buy a house with a child that could potentially jump off a balcony?

If these people purchase, they should look at more safety upgrades to the door leading to the balcony instead of directing their energy to the last stop off the balcony....

Former HOA President
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Dear Tim,

Before you go any further, ask the potential buyer to sign a contract subject to the BOD 'approval to raise the rail'. The contract would be presented to the BOD, I assume. If denied, walk away from it. This is the best you can do under the circumstances.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
It seems to me it's an ADA issue only after the buyers purchase the condo.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
If professionally built, I don't see where the HOA would object to this given a very reasonable explanation from the potential and a homeowner under financial distress. Monitor it closely and ensure no corners are cut.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree with Petunka. If the buyers are concerned, have them make the approval a condition of the sale. If it's approved, great. If it's denied, it's no sale.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
TimF5,

This is not an ADA issue, but it may be an FHA issue. You might want to read the attached document.
📎 Attachments (1):

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📄11019134344371.pdf(131 KB)
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
The Act makes it unlawful for any person to refuse “to permit, at the expense of the [disabled] person, reasonable modifications of existing premises occupied or to be occupied by such person if such modifications may be necessary to afford such person full enjoyment of the premises, except that, in the case of a rental,..............
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
The Act makes it unlawful for a housing provider or homeowners’ association to refuse to allow a reasonable modification to the premises when such a modification may be necessary to afford persons with disabilities full enjoyment of the premises.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/18/2011 4:01 PM
The purchaser would be responsible after they bought the property to apply for the variance with the HOA. However, I would discuss this idea of raising the railing with the fire department and building codes people. It sounds kind of simple to raise the railing but in doing so can cause other issues. There are reasons why the threshold of height of certain items are the way they are. A taller railing can effect how the fire department can enter the home in case of fire/emergency.

I wonder why people would purchase a home with such a significant concern and then demand accommodation to their circumstances. If you have an autistic child or other handicap, you should shop for a home that wouldn't be such a danger. A person in a wheelchair wouldn't buy a home on a steep hill unless they paid for their own modifications to live there. Why would someone buy a house with a child that could potentially jump off a balcony?

If these people purchase, they should look at more safety upgrades to the door leading to the balcony instead of directing their energy to the last stop off the balcony....

please reread the OP...they haven't bought, want to buy but will only do so if this is approved. I applaud them for a proactive approach in dealing with this issue. They obviously like the property but want it to be safe.

railings are built low for two reasons, cost and view. It isn't so much a threshold of being high but a threshold of being low for costs reasons. The more rail the more cost.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I stated the PURCHASER would be responsible for making the modifications. It is NOT the seller's responsibility. However, if they want to work with the purchaser, they should seek out other resources before they go down a rabbit hole of non-return. Whenever your negotiating the sale of a home, the purchaser may request certain repairs or conditions to be met before they will buy. I believe the purchaser is trying to make this item one of the things on their "Punch list" prior to purchase. Which if the seller wanted to make the change to sell the property then they should do the necessary work to do so. However, I don't believe they should. The HOA could ultimately approve the change but only IF it is removed when they sale. Which would put the situation back to square one.

Overall, if the purchaser wants this modification, they need to address it themselves once they make the purchase. If they can find out prior, then all the better.The HOA can't interfere with the sales contract so they shouldn't really be involved in granting this condition until the property changes hands or the current owner requests the change.

Former HOA President
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
To answer the OP's original question:

I would defend the lawsuit by trotting out the following:
1) Due diligence on the owner's part: what did the owner do to protect the autistic child from the accident. For instance, was the balcony door locked at all times? double locked? If the owners knew the balcony posed a danger to the child, and did nothing, then they are partially responsible, and that could mitigate the damages in the case. If the owners knew of a hazard and did nothing to mitigate it, they could damage their eventual case. "I tried X but was shot down" will not fly far in the courts, if you could have also tried Y and Z very easily too, but didn't.
2) Current safety standard in place in the community. I would show what OSHA, for example, requires of a guard rail, and whether this railing IS or IS NOT applicable to that standard (ie, comparing apples to oranges by showing they are both delicious fruits, even if they are not the same fruit). I would use fire code standards, to see what they say is adequate. I would show other similar buildings with similar railings, to show I was in the community norm for such things.

that's what I would do to defend against the lawsuit.

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