E-Petition

Started by ST2 • 14 replies • 1414 views

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ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

Has anyone petitioned the Board for a Special Meeting using an electronic petition? If so, what were the results? What elements were incorporated on the Form? What was the legitimate basis cited for this in the absence of a specific reference in the governing documents or statutory law?

Case in point: we are a large snowbird community with 85% of the population absent for most of the year. The permanent residents communicate with the membership via an independent Forum and monthly newsletter. Board is essentially absent from all contact with Membership (I know, a very unhealthy situation). Snowbirds wish to participate in a petition to Board to place an issue on the agenda but obviously, cannot do so with an in-person canvas. Mailing has become too expensive and slow an option, especially with about 1/3 of our members residing in Canada. Our Bylaws do provide for electronic notification of meeting notices with prior authorization but is silent on electronic signatures on Petitions--reference is just to "signed".

We envision circulating the Petition, via a User/Password protected website using the total Petition language and asking that the respondent send the E-Petition back stating support in their own words with the Petition, the intention to registered their Petition via electronic signature/email address and with a phone number for validation.

Thoughts/input?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why need the petition at all? Can't someone just type a letter to the BOD to request this issue be addressed? Seems to me if there is a newsletter and web access to a webpage, the ability to express and opinion/question should be avaialable. The purpose of a special meeting/petition is usually to remove BOD members or change Covenants and Restrictions. By-laws can be changed through meeting notes and passed along to the membership as memo's.

If you send a letter into the BOD, they should address it in their open forum meetings or even amongst themselves. The discussion should be made available in their meeting notes or a response to the group/individual asking about the issue. A petition sounds like a bit of overkill unless it's to directly result in an expense effecting all or a serious change in the operations.

Former HOA President

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

ST,

this is a very interesting question and it is not addressed by Chapter 720. I would certainly go for it and let the Board challenge the membership. It should be fun plus have nothing to lose.

However, you can only petition the board to place an item on the agenda (requires 20% of voting members) but you cannot tell them the item must be addressed at a special meeting. The BOD can address the petitioned item at the regular BOD meeting or at the special meeting within 60 days. It is their choice.

Or, the members can call a special meeting (requires only 10%) to resolve/vote on a specific problem.

ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

We unfortunately have an "absent" Board. They have ignored several previous letters from homeowners.

Hand-delivered.

Hand-delivered with tears.

We have no voice to communicate with our Board; 7/9 were appointed and their interim terms will expire in a few months. The Board cancels pre-scheduled Board meetings. This Petition is a desperation effort (gesture?) to attempt to formally put the Board on notice that there is a serious discontent among Members of issues which must be addressed. It is anticipated that the Board will ignore it, but we must try.

Our main Association business is conducted "in season" during this time ie Nov-Mar. We will essentially lose two years of business if this BOD does not "wake up". They have not met since March 2010 and our new Board will not be elected and seated until Feb 2012. They may or may not obey our Bylaws which require 4 meetings/year. We are in crisis mode and need extraordinary help.

The Board is oblivious to governing documents and Florida statutes. All Board duties/powers have been given away to an abusive, greedy and incompetent Management company. The Board knows that nothing can be enforced and the people owning here are elderly and not moneyed enough to sue them civilly. Members are routinely ignored by both the Board and Management Company and Management company sends letters to ALL members "threatening them" with lawsuits for harassment (a concept for which they have invented a new definition).

We are doing all we can to try to address the situation while, at the same time, avoid dividing the community.

ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

Petunka; unfortunately, the Florida statutes defer to the governing documents on a "special meeting" and when I checked, I was really ticked to see that we needed 20% (per our Bylaws) to get a special meeting on the specific problem--which is really our goal. The Petition is to have a meeting on a specific issue and our Bylaws require 20%.

Among the many items of business that are being ignored is the urgent updating of our Bylaws.

My main concern for the immediate term is to establish a credibility for basis of E-Petition so it cannot be challenged as not provided for in our governing documents and statutory law. It seems to me that there is a lesser standard for Petitions, which refer only to the "signing", as opposed to the higher standards of Ballot voting. I am trying to see if there is a model out there for this that I can lean on. Otherwise, we are just wingin' it!

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

I am trying to see if there is a model out there for this that I can lean on. Otherwise, we are just wingin' it!

I think, electronic signatures are legal in the US but have not look into it.

ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

Yes, Petunka, electronic signatures are legal in US and in Florida.

However, we all know that the operation of HOA's are quasi-government and are a creature of the Governing docs and Statutory law. Since this issue is not addressed in either of those sources, it is problematic to retrofit common law into our governance model unless one wishes to pursue under civil code. And that is just not feasible.

Thanks for thinking about this problem!

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

We are doing all we can to try to address the situation while, at the same time, avoid dividing the community. Management Company and Management company sends letters to ALL members "threatening them" with lawsuits for harassment (a concept for which they have invented a new definition).’

ST<

Unfortunately, the problems you describe are not all that uncommon when you have many absentee owners in the community, be it snowbirds or investors. If the management company is that aggressive I would probably have an attorney to write a letter to the management company on behalf of owners who agree to challenge the harassment letters before it gets out of hand. Here, the electronic signature should work. You should be able to find good attorney at $200/hour. I know, it is money, but I do not see any other way.

Also, should the board resign (possible) is there anyone else to run the business? It is not a pleasant situation to be in but in this instance it really may be up to the permanent residents to step up and help you to make the change. I pray, pray you succeed in your efforts.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

ST2,

Here is the link to FL Electronic Signature Act of 1996.

In this act, electronic signature is defined as:

“Electronic signature” means any letters, characters, or symbols, manifested by electronic or similar means, executed or adopted by a party with an intent to authenticate a writing. A writing is electronically signed if an electronic signature is logically associated with such writing.

per 668.50, (7) LEGAL RECOGNITION OF ELECTRONIC RECORDS, ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES, AND ELECTRONIC CONTRACTS.—
(a) A record or signature may not be denied legal effect or enforceability solely because the record or signature is in electronic form.

NOTE: the act does specify that:
(5) USE OF ELECTRONIC RECORDS AND ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES; VARIATION BY AGREEMENT.—
(b) This section applies only to transactions between parties each of which has agreed to conduct transactions by electronic means.

I haven't taken the time to completely read through it. However, it appears that you might not have to change your bylaws in order for the electronic signature to be applied for those who have already agreed to electronic communication with the Association.

Tim

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

ST,

I keep thinking about this management company. There could be a complaint filed in Florida with the Bureau of Professional management or such an organization. I do not exactly remember the name, but if you’d like I can check into it. They do not have any right to use your money to harass you and or to threaten you. The money in dues they receive are to be used to improve your neighborhood. Amazing what is going on.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

ST,

Found it.. it is called Florida Department of Business Professional Regulation.

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pro/cam/index.html

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ST2 on 10/16/2011 7:19 AM
Petunka; unfortunately, the Florida statutes defer to the governing documents on a "special meeting" and when I checked, I was really ticked to see that we needed 20% (per our Bylaws) to get a special meeting on the specific problem--which is really our goal. The Petition is to have a meeting on a specific issue and our Bylaws require 20%.

Among the many items of business that are being ignored is the urgent updating of our Bylaws.

My main concern for the immediate term is to establish a credibility for basis of E-Petition so it cannot be challenged as not provided for in our governing documents and statutory law. It seems to me that there is a lesser standard for Petitions, which refer only to the "signing", as opposed to the higher standards of Ballot voting. I am trying to see if there is a model out there for this that I can lean on. Otherwise, we are just wingin' it!

We need 25% of our members to petition for a special meeting. We were petitioned for a special meeting earlier this year and held it although we knew it was going to be a waste of time. The item was voted on and failed. If fewer than 20% petition, it is unlikely that anything will be done even with a special meeting.

But I don't understand how any upkeep of your building can take place if the Board is not meeting to address issues that arise. I thought I had problems until I read about some of the other Associations.

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

Please tell us if you are a condominium association which uses FL statutes 718, or a home owners association which uses FL statutes 720. Who you can complain to depends on that fact.

ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

Re: We are an HOA under FS720

Re: Management Company; they were hired at the recommendation of the then Vice President of the Board; they were golfing buds. MC acts as if it is impervious to being terminated, despite many complaints to Board which has abdicated ALL power to MC. MC is arrogant and threatening to Members and does not act like you would expect an MC to act.

Filing complaint on the Property Manager's license next week under a licensing infraction which will involve her employer, MC. This is to keep the pressure on MC and Board.

Yes, we have severe governance problems here made much more difficult due to the age of the residents and their absence from community life most of the year.

Thanks to all for insights/suggestions. I think maybe someday I will write a book or perhaps a compilation of HOA horror stories. With progressive legislation and some luck, the next generation might read in amazement about the way it was in the "old days"!

ST2
Posts: 22

Posted:

But I don't understand how any upkeep of your building can take place if the Board is not meeting to address issues that arise. I thought I had problems until I read about some of the other Associations.

Easy, the Board gave MC carte blanche to dip into our piggy bank. MC has been spending from our Reserves for unnecessary "improvements"; indeed, that is the only positive thing in this sad scenario. Our buildings and grounds are in pretty good shape because MC has been throwing a LOT of our money at projects which were never discussed by the Board or membership. But, many expenditures were unnecessary and NONE were authorized by a due process. MC has basically taken over with the passive consent of the Board.

I believe our only hope is reconstituting the Board at the next election and hoping that the new Board will either boot the MC or be strong enough to control it.

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