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SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
Our condo community still under construction and the builder has sold about 60% of the homes. He has kept the selling prices of the new homes stable even in this terrible economy, but he manages to give away tens of thousands of dollars in goodies and perks with purchases (otherwise, I would imagine, he would sell very little).

He tells us that he is doing it because he feels an obligation to the residents to keep up the integrity of the community.

As a by-product of keeping up the selling prices (even though he is giving away many tens of thousands of dollars in extras), the assessments on our homes are extremely high because the tax assessor has nothing to go by except the new home sales (resales are almost non-existent so far); therefore, our property tax bills are astronomical and going up further despite the fact that the town in which we are located has its assessments going down substantially because of the lowered value of the houses.

So, my question is... can a builder (we are in New York State) change home selling prices once he puts out an Offering Plan with the prices listed or is he, somehow, obligated to sell each section's houses at the published price he sets initially but manages to get around the system by giving freebies?

Thanks!
Steve
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Steve,

I would think that the builder, like any other salesman, can offer what ever additional intensives they are legally allowed to offer in order to make the sale.

SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
I agree, but is he obligated to keep the selling price as is shown on the Offering Plan or can he, for instance, run a 20% off sale and sell a home priced in the Offering Plan for $500,000 at $400,000?
Steve
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Nothing is free...It may be more in the line of "incentives". It's like being offered the baseline vehicle and then being offered "air conditioning, 6 CD changer, and other options". Your going to pay for those items in the end.

You have to understand a few things first about a HOA. A HOA was created to be a sales tool of the builder/developer originally. That's how HOA's started. They have since involved into somewhat of a different animal but basically that's what they start as. A developer can purchase say 100 acres for $100,000 (EXAMPLE). They then split off that 100 acres into 100 lots. So far their upfront costs is $100K. They then have to develop this land by clearing it out and setting up utilities. That isn't cheap and may be another 100K. The developer may decide to offer some amenities such as a clubouse/pool/tennis courts etc... That is probably another 100 to 200K. So let's say the developer is now in it for 500K just to keep things simple.

Now comes in the selling of these lots. The developer then offers these lots at 50K a piece. Now, the developer can be the builder or the builder can be a separate entitity. They work both ways. It can also be an individual. (POA). A buyer buys the 50K lot in which to build. The develooper/builder decide they type and size of the homes to be built. They may decide to put condo's on the property, townhomes, or individual homes. All of which have to meet a certain standard. In order to develop this housing standard/requirement they must have rules/regulations. Since they are the investors and control ALL the aspects at this point of the development, they create the documents around their requirements. This is the birth of the Convenants and Restrictions. It is also time they incorporate so they can sell the property. The By-laws are created once residence come in so to continue to maintain the sales value of the homes.

The developer/builder isn't offering anything really "Free". Those are incentives to get people to buy so they can get out. The real money they make is upfront when they sell off and build. The faster they can sell off the property and turn over the HOA to the residents the better. That's because the real expense in a HOA is the continued maintenance of the amenities they installed. It cost more to maintain a pool in 2 -3 years than it is to install/purchase it. That is what the dues paid by the members of the HOA pay for once it is an owner run HOA.

As far as taxes, your barking up the wrong tree in a way. You may want to get a better understanding how your tax system works in your area. It varies state to state. Taxes are based mostly on the appraised value of the property the house sits on. I believe it's done by their own appraisors or information from appraisals when houses are sold. So you may be paying more for your property than you neighbor. You can call the tax assessor's office and get a new appraisal. Keep in mind that the sales price of your home is NOT the same as the tax assessment appraisal. There are different factors involved. They can be close to it in some states but most of the time the actual appraised value of your home is much higher than the tax appraisal. Which is a good thing as you pay less taxes.


Former HOA President
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Steve, a developer is not obligated to keep the price. In fact when the market was hot prices kept going up in communities with time. The reason the developer is keeping the price high is not because of integrity but to avoid a lawsuit from existing owners for misrepresenting values. This has happened many times.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Steve,

Your problem is exactly that same as what has been happening recently in our community. We are almost built out. There are only about 3 lots left out of a 90 home community. The community was started in 2004. There have been only a few resales (about a half dozen) in the last 3-4 years. The builders prices have remained about the same, because the builder claims he does not want to have a negative impact on the home values in the community, but, although the floor plans are identical to earlier homes, he now includes a number of "upgrades" for free as an incentive. The problem is, tax appraisers tend to ignore the upgrades, basing home values on such things as the total square feet (heated), number of rooms, number of "fixtures" (bathroom sinks, showers, tubs, toilets, etc.) and so forth. Values also depend on the sale prices of other homes in the neighborhood. (A 1500 square-foot home in a neighborhood where homes go for $250K will be valued higher than a nearly identical home in a neighborhood across town where the average selling price is $200K.)

We recently went through a town-wide reappraisal (required every 5 years) and the appraised value of nearly every home in the community went up by a huge amount, although the appraised values of other homes in the town in other neighborhoods went down. The only recourse was to file an appeal, which most homeowners did, with somewhat successful results.

Conclusion: Your builder isn't doing you any favors given the current housing market.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Builders usually do not lower the base offering price because, as Jeff mentioned, it would compromise the community. Instead, they offer a package of incentives (different color of money). However, some builders have a ‘close out sale’ or, sadly ‘going out of business sale’.
SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
JEFF,
Please tell me more. What would be the basis for such lawsuits? I am not in the least convinced that the builder is keeping the advertised prices stable for the residents' benefit. STEVE
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Well, a basis of such lawsuit would depend on how good of layer you'll find

This is what I saw happening in California 3 years ago when prices just started coming down on real estate.

Someone buys a condo (or a house in a new development) They pay X amount of money. Many times such purchases are done without buyer's agents and solely with seller's agent representing both sides. In California, unlike NY, we are not required to have an attorney for a real estate transaction). During this transaction a buyer asks many questions about the area, property, future of the property, etc. Often (pretty much always) a salesperson will say things like "this is a brand new building, prices will always be higher, they will also try to make it sound like there is huge interest and pretty much all units are either sold or reserved.

Now fast forward 6 months. A similar unit in the same development is sold for 20% cheaper because of market condition. The first buyer goes to the agent, who was employed by the developer, and says - you misrepresented facts. You led me to believe that prices will hold and they are falling. Either return the difference or cancel the sale.

Now, it's questionable if the buyer would win or lose, but developers don't want to take a chance. What if the building is 50% sold and now all are asking for the same thing.

This forces developers to keep the price high and offer intensives.

A friend of mine was buying a condo about 3 years ago. It was overprices and prices were already coming down. The seller offered her all upgrades she wanted for free, subsidized her mortgage by paint points to get her loan to 3.5% fixed for 30 years which was incredible at the time, and prepaid her HOA dues for 3 years. All around it turned out to be an OK deal, but if you look at her paperwork it looks like she overpaid.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
The reason the developer is keeping the price high is not because of integrity but to avoid a lawsuit from existing owners for misrepresenting values. This has happened many times.

Has it happened many times, really Jeff? I would think lawsuit against a developer for lowering prices, could be quite difficult to win. Any developers can dump their properties (although as I said they do not like to do that); mortgagees sell their property at 10 cents on a dollar and so can I. Could I be sued? Ha.

Well, a basis of such lawsuit would depend on how good of layer you'll find (Jeff)

Well, I was hoping you could come up with a better answer.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Petunka, I know of two such suits in the last 3 years. One of them I was actually involved in as a consultant. Both were settled outside of court, in both claimants received pretty much what they asked for.
SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
The question still remains. When a builder puts home prices in the Offering Plan, is he obligated to sell homes at those price or can he unilaterally decide to drop the prices?
Steve
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
No.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
'question still remains. When a builder puts home prices in the Offering Plan, is he obligated to sell homes at those price..'

Sorry, the answer is 'no' to this question.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Steve, a develop can change prices at any time. There is no requirement to keep them at a certain level.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
It is a free market unless someone passes the law you can't.
SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
Maybe it's a New York thing...
But our Offering Plan for our section of the community has, on its first page, an "Amendment to the Offering Plan" which has a set of prices specifically dedicated to our section of the community. It states, "The provisions in this paragraph shall only apply to purchase agreements entered into subsequent to the acceptance date of this amendment."

It also states, " the Offering Plan is hereby amended to disclose revised purchase prices for the homes..."

Who has to approve such amendments and if a builder can change prices on a whim, why is it necessary to get amendments to the Offering Plan?
Steve
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Steve, again, citing little bits from the covenants is not very useful. First you have no proof the builder is not following them. And, if you do, then you must consult an attorney. Again, this is a free market economy and if the builder decides to lower the prices he can. And, most likely he can even amend the covenants as long as he is on control. Such is life.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
>It also states, " the Offering Plan is hereby amended to disclose revised purchase prices for the homes..."

I think amendments in this context just means changes.

(While I am not a lawyer) I would think that the builder could change prices in any way at any time, unless there was something in the contracts of previous buyers that prevents it.

Normally purchase contracts contain language that "this is the only contract" to eliminate issues about verbal representations by the agent. This might also apply to any representations in the offering plan.
SteveS8 (New York)
Posts: 128
Posted:
I only bring up the Offering Plan because there must be a reason for its existence.
The builder takes every opportunity to remind homeowners that he is not obligated to do this or that because "it is not stated in the Offering Plan" as if he is only obligated to do what is stated there.
Steve
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Steve,

The Offering Plan might be required by state law (it is in Connecticut). The builder is probably right when he claims he doesn't have to do this or that because it's not stated in the offering plan.

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