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RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
It good to be back. After all the help from your Web sight in the past I have attempted to work out problems with the HOA or management Co.
Some progress has been made but only when,-- and I
say WHEN I keep locking horns with them. Refusal to enforce a great majority of the laws and HOA Bylaws, neglecting to insure action on law violations or addressing the problem, Pure and simple neglect. I have request the management company to come to my home and discuss theproblems today.

One of the board member flat out stated that she did not have time to read the
HOA laws, State Laws, or the Association article’s. Also stated that when I request that a web sight be put up (and it has now) or Bulletin board & inform for all association member of meetings I was chastise and told that they need to buy a computer or go to the library for one. Thy did not feel a bulletin board was needed, (have one now) but not used) This is fact and was told to me face to face and the management company stood by and watch, no response.

Not sure how to hold on and keep going, did have a few HOA home owners respond, but only 6 out of 66 units. Suggestions?
Thanks:
Richard
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you a board member? The Management company is a contractor to the HOA. They take orders from the HOA board NOT individual owners. Hence why the BOD were elected. They were elected to represent the general membership and handling issues. Just understand why the MC may not be responding to you or have anything to say. Unless the contract with the HOA states the MC enforces the rules, they do what the BOD tells them to do. Make sure you understand the relationship between the HOA and MC. You may be blurring the lines.

Not everyone is tech savvy in a HOA. Nearly 25% of our HOA membership didn't own a computer. Plus our internet connection was not up to date. It's great to have a internet page for people to view but it is just a TOOL for the HOA. The bulletin board is also a TOOL. Tools used correctly help. I'd focus on that for now.

HOA's is wrought with apathy. It's in the DNA of the HOA. A little bit of change and the apathy gets wiped out. You may not know it now, but making change will eventually erase some of that apathy away.

Former HOA President
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Good question. Are you on the board ? If not, then I don't blame the MC or board members for not wanting to get involved with you because you don't have the authority to make decisions.
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Thank you for your come back. Is this to say they can disregard the laws of the complex and state laws in doing the job and show
no more responsibility they wish to offer. No I’m not a board member but correct me if I wrong,
I was under the impression the laws took preference. They were set up for our protection (thank
God for that). The one in question has no more idea of the laws (the last I was informed) then
my family in Michigan and I live in Colorado. I’m talking about responsibility what comes with
the Job. I understand it is a voluntary position but in no way does this lessens the requirements.
No more so then the voluntary positions I hold. If you volunteer you accept the responsibilities,
that just part of it. It not an excuse to relinquish your responsibilities if the job get tough. But
then again, thats only my point of view. I still believe and work by the statement, CANT STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE FIRE. 
Hard truth, but it true. It looks to me they took the job because is lends prestige to them selves.
Also it is true they have contributed but only when confounded with facts and determination. I
can’t volunteer for all things and I need to pace my self. I’m only one grain of sand on the beach.
With that I want to thank you, you did respond and for that I’m great full.
Concerned HOA home owner.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
You ,unfortunately, have zeroed in on the problem. Many associations are in the same position where current or previous boards have shirked their responsibilities and were interested in only their own interests.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There's this thing called "reality". A HOA is NOT an object, a thing, or very tangible. It is YOU and YOUR neighbors. There is NO "They or Them" in a HOA. You want to complain rules or laws aren't followed, without police why would they? The police in the HOA are the people/BOD. NOT everyone wants to play "peace officer". It's NOT the MC's responsibility to enforce the rules. (Unless dictated in the contract). It is the BOD's to recognize the violation and to address it. They may USE the MC to deliver the notifications or to pay the legal bill/action, but they don't enforce the rules.

I'd say you should start volunteering to be on the Archectual Control Committee if one does exist. Most HOA's have them but not necessarily active. Find out if there is an allowance in your documenation for such a committee. The BOD can still override a ACC decision but the ACC does address the issue. It helps the board take some of the weight off in making every decision even though ultimately they are responsible. Usually an ACC decision only goes to the BOD when there is a conflict or final stamping of approval.

Sometime one sees the forrest for the trees...Just because you have rules, doesn't mean you have to enforce all of them. Sounds contradictory coming from a President doesn't it? Not all rules are relevant, up to date, or fair to enforce. If you don't make the effort to change and update the rules every so often, those rules can strangle a HOA.

Former HOA President
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
As to the question,--- You want to complain rules or laws aren't followed, without police why would they? That's simple to answer but hard to find.
The work is Integrity. and that is in short supply these days,
But your Point well taken, but then again how many things must I volunteer to do. I can’t save the world but willing to work with people of integrity, good work ethics, and hold responsibility for actions taken by them.

I will flat out say that only two of the board members have those characteristic
and they hold on. As for the laws, Rules and Regulations?? I addressed that with the management company today at my home. Were the laws still in good standing? Were and laws changed from the time the concept was established on construction (1980) of the units. Any changes to the Bylaws that I may not be aware of? To this the answer was absolutely not.

All Laws, Policies, and Covenants are in good standing with no changes. SO who inforces the rules???. That has not been address so they pass the buck.

Example, Just one question out of many I asked. Does the Board or representatives of the community have the right to change, modify, reconstruct or otherwise change the appearance of the units when damage was done due to weather or other unknown situations, (not the owner). M.C. had
no answer. I did and this is what the Condominium Declaration reads. The Condominium Declaration reads as follows. Damage to the interior or any part of a condominium unit, Garage space, resulting from the maintenance, repair, emergency repair or emergency repairs within
another unit or garage space at the instance of the association, shall be a common expense of all the owners. Note:--- Restoration of the damaged improvements shall be substantially the same as the condition in which they existed prior to the damage.----- It will go on by stating if damage is
done by home owner then the owner will held responsible In short, they can not modify, change, or in anyway change the original construction with out owners authorization, and NONE has been give.

They did it to me and it lowered the appraised value. This is just one of many and
not just to me but to other owner:

OK, I just got to get to bed. it's 12:13 A.M. and again my thanks for the come back. You do have your wits about you.
Wish you all the best. R.L> Trust the weather will be good for your area. :-)
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Confused on your post about the damage. Are you saying that damage occurred by a weather event and it wasn't repaired to the original condition prior to the damage? Was the property damaged by the owner, and then repaired not up to original standard? This sounds like an insurance issue. Not exactly clear.

Not even sure how the lowered appraised value of your home was a result of any of the HOA's actions. Appraisals generally don't have anything to do with the HOA. They are based on similar homes in the same condition/configuration sold in the general area in the last year or less.

I am not faulting your volunteering attitude at all. Just making sure you understand the lines. You want enforcement of these lines but not exactly acting within them. What is the exact issue that has gotten you down this rabbit hole? Like I said before, one change will bring the apathy out of any member of the HOA. What was yours?

Former HOA President
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
No one can legally change or amend your Declaration and Bylaws without a vote of owners .. usually something aroud 75%. The percentage should be in you governing documents under amendments. Then it would have to be recorded at your county recorder's office to be legal and enforceable.
Whatever is written in the Declaration and Bylaws is what the board and MC can legally do.They are as legally bound by the governing documents as you are.
The MC has no right to do anything without board approval.
If it is a "Rule" and not in your origional Declaration or Bylaws then it may be possible for the board to modify that.
Your example sounds like it comes from your origional documents and if I understood it correctly the association would be responsible for restoring the property to the way it was. However, our documents only require that it be restored to the origional condition at the time it was built.
A board who does not follow the legal documents puts the association (you and your neighbors)in a very vunerable position and makes all owners subject to lawsuites.
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
As to the question, When the damage occurred, was it by a weather event or not repaired to the
original condition prior to the damage? Was the property damaged by the owner, and then
repaired not up to original standard? This sounds like an insurance issue. Not exactly clear.
From Richard. The answer as follows.
For 11 years I have complained about roof leakage due to damage (one of many problems),
Cotton wood tree limbs broke off from snow and considerable damage was done. Roof at that
time was tile and just beautiful. Not just one time but 3 time. I say considerable and it had 3x3 ft
area’s of Broken tile’s and not only in one place, all over. 4 attempts were made (temporary
repair) by substandard workers, yes Substandard and I can’t begin to tell you how Silicone sealer
can be use on a roof. When inspected by a licensed roofing company (3 and none used) they
were flabbergasted at what they seen. Yea, I have all the pictures and from the Roofing Co. Also.
Leakage into the bed rooms, water going down the wiring into light switches and light fixtures,
damaged walls. On heavy rains water came out of the back side, Yes back side of condo siding.
Water caused tile in shower to fall off as water came in on the back side of that. All this I have
documented with pictures. Problems well beyond what I can put in this letter. Who paid for
interior damage, I did and was told by the HOA. Yea, HOA they would not. I have a lot more
but space and time will restrict me from listing them. City inspector was absolutely discussed
when he seen the work. The problem was he was inspecting a different unit so his statement was
not recorded, So as of today I no longer have a tile roof, but shingled roof (that made large gaps
on side walls as it is not as thick and repairs to that look horrendous). , or nice fences around the
yard area, parking lot that looks like 30 years after people (documentary on History TV. Channel)
Condo units that needed painting and repairs 4 years ago. Sorry to report that but it true. But the
swimming pool is up and going fine. I thank God I love camera’s and take a LOT of pictures
and run a computer, that way I will remember what it look like in years past. So what can I do at
72 Y.O.A. and forced into retirement 12 years ago due to injuries received and many, many
surgeries. I’m just not in a position to due much now.
Trust this will give you some insight. To all you out East,
Thanks, and enjoy the good weather, I have a feeling it will change and not for the better. All you
on the Eastern side have had more then you want in bad weather. Wish you all the best. God
speed in all you do. Have faith and keep going.
Richard.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well that helps explains some things. The interior damage would indeed most likely be your cost. Should have discussed that with your homeowner's insurance. The exterior damage to the home should have been covered by the HOA UNLESS that is NOT part of their insurance policy. It sounds like an understanding of what the HOA's insurance covers needs explained more here. It is NOT always structures or individual homes the HOA insurance is for. Your still going to pay the cost of the HOA's insurance claim through your dues or special assessments if it is required. A better understanding of the HOA's policy needs to be understood here.

A tile roof versus a shingle roof, would indeed effect the home's value. However, I am unclear on who made the decision to go with the shingle roof during the repair process. Was it the HOA or did you make that decision? If it was the HOA, then I could see how that could be an issue to have with them. If you choose the solution, then the HOA should have an issue with you.

A better understanding of your HOA is needed here. Have you read your documents? Do you know what the monthly bills and responsibilities of the HOA are? Can you find out what the insurance policy covers and where the lines are? Seems your putting some blame on items that really doesn't fall into that area.

Former HOA President
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Was their a shingle roof origionaly or a tile roof ? Check your CC&R's to see if they need only restore to origional standars. That is what is stated in our CC&R's.
RichardL7 (Colorado)
Posts: 105
Posted:
Melissa and Fred, thanks for the come back. Yes all of the first Condo’s have tile, about 3/4th
of them. The board made all the decisions and I had no say in it. And yes the Condominium
Declaration of our area is very clear and it also reads that they should pay for interior damage.

Here is where the problem can be and I feel it is. First, the indifference by home owners. I have
never seen more then 7 families out of 66 units come to the meetings. I was one of the 7 and
from 2000 and medical problems I was not able to make many in the years past. I could not help
that. After disability was forced on me and I was able to attend meetings (January of 2011) I
started to read the laws, Declaration, and ETC. 4 Times and what I found was a very high lever
of knowledge lacking by the board/Management Co.

This is where the M.C. should have address the problem and informed the Board. The fact is I
had absolutely no knowledge of the Declaration laws, or state laws. I had no idea of them Until
by chance I was talking with a different M.C. Company and I was stunned. From 2000 until
January of this year I was in the dark. And yet the Laws clearly state that each year the M.C.
must provide classes on all documents related to the association, and the law and it’s very clear
on that.

So with that I feel that the management company must be on top and in full understanding of the
laws. I feel they let us down, but not now I’m working to understand them and assist if I
can, but trust me, when I address a problem and it’s backed up by the law I sure catch *&^$& if
you know what I’m saying. So I just keep working at it, keep learning. I have said before, I feel
like the Lone Ranger and I don’t even have Tonto his side kick to help. Us, old ones remember
The Lone Ranger. L.O.L

All I ask of the B.O.D and management company to abide by the Laws, declarations, & Condo
rules. They have been very neglectful of that. I want to help our association and keep it looking
good and a few other people do also. Lucky for us we have two new board members & I think
that will help. We will see.
PS. At this time the MC still will not list his physical address and only has a PO Box number,
never seen a copy of the insurance policy, and does not want to have people at his home (office)
so no one know where he lives. He will side tract you if you ask.

OK, thanks for the help, It may all work out some day, sure hope I see it.
Richard.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again, the MC is a contractor to the HOA and do the bidding of the HOA BOD. It is NOT an individual member that is to contact them unless it is to resolve a payment issue. The MC most likely doesn't live in the HOA. I am sure they also don't want people to call or visit them outside BUSINESS HOURS. Most PM's use a P.O. box when possible as a business address. So I am not finding this part unusual or sketchy.

The HOA sometimes has to make some tough decisions when it comes to a change of materials. I've had to do it in the repairs of some of our property. Tile Roofs aren't cheap to keep up with and the maintenance can be high. I am sure once the other roofs start to fail, those too will be replaced with asphalt tiles to save money. Sometimes you have to compromise between continued costs and aesthetics.

Be careful about what you wish for when it comes to applying the rules. They work BOTH ways...It is good you are participating and are NOT apethetic. It's just you need to clean up your lines a bit before getting so frustrated. Until you understand the lines and live within them, the view is quite different. May I suggest you run for a BOD position? That may truly be the resolution you need so to help everyone and yourself...Good luck!

Former HOA President
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
I will just add a couple more things. I can understand your frustration, but if you are not on the board you probably have no idea of the difficult decisions a board has to make in trying to keep a HOA afloat in these difficult time.It is a huge, thankless unpaid job.
Your problem is quite complicated to understand in this type of forum, but I'm guesing that the board made the decision to go with shingles because of the cost and the financial burden it would place on owners. Our association would have informed owners of this decision and given them an option to either go with shingles or pay a special assesment for tiles.The cost of tiles woud have been divided among all owners. That however isn't something that they were probably required to do.
Since not all roofs were changed, my first question would be were any of the board members who were on the board at the time the decision was made affected by this ? Did some of the board members have their roofs changed to shingles ? If so did they vote for the change or were they outvoted ?
All owners have a right to inspect the books, records, minutes etc. There are some exceptions that apply but not to this particular issue. In the minutes should be the decision on the switch from tiles to shingles and the reason that was done. I would ask to see a copy of those minutes and any minutes that relate to that.It should also state who was on the board at the time.
Sometimes board members forget that they are required to act in the best interests of all owners as well as the financial stability of the Association.
I agree that removing the tiles would devalue your home. However it not only devalues your home but all homes in your association even the ones with tiles , although granted, not to the same degree. As I said before our documents require that the association replace to the "origional" condition. In most cases that is a minus because it doesn't allow for owner upgrades but in this case it would be a plus.
Read you Declaration and Bylaws carefully. They are legally binding on everyone. Boards and PM's must abide by them as well as owners.
I would think that all owners who had their roofs replaced with shingles would be as concerned as you are.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Richard:

let me add my 2 cents into this, I keep seeing in this thread that the BOD has ultimate authority and in reality that isn't true. You and your fellow homeowners have the ability per your documents to recall and get rid or board members. The homeowners own the ultimate authority, if your not happy with how the folks elected are making decisions then you can get rid or them through the process.

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