A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
← Return to Topics List

Selective Enforcement

Started by MG5 • 21 replies • 3272 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
The president of the condo association, where I live, has decided that he/she would like to try to drive me out of the neighborhood. I say president with certainty, because I have witnessed the president nit-picking/taking pictures of my property. The president, along with the on-site property manager do not like renters. They are on a mission to rid their development of all renters. They have been targeting me heavily with violation notices, threats, ect... and my landlord is really trying to stay out of it. If I move out and break the lease I'm going to lose my sec dep, last month, get in the middle of a lawsuit, and incur moving expenses/loss of work.... so I'm trying to stay.

After receiving a stack of petty violation notices, I have a clear cut case for selective enforcement. I decided to set a trap, they fell for it, and now I can prove that the association is letting several of my neighbors violate a specific rule, yet they came right after me the second I broke it. To make it better, I brought this fact up to them, and 2 weeks later, they have taken no action to enforce the rule against my neighbors. The president is specifically targeting me for enforcement. My neighbors who are "breaking" the rule, are even willing to go on record saying that no enforcement attempt has been against them (they are on my side).

What action can I take? Would I have to get to the point where they actually assess a fine to do anything?
Again, landlord is not helping.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Since you are a renter there is really not much you can do. By the way the association can't do much to you either. The relationship is between an association and an owner. A different and totally different relationship is between a landlord and a tenant. The same way the association can't issue fines to you and can't make you comply with their rules.

Your best bet is to get an owner involved. this is in his best interest assuming someone really wants renters out. If you move out and he/she rents it again they'll have the same problem.

The fact they the association doesn't enforce the same rules against others would help you. I am assuming your lease has a clause that says that you must obey by the association rules. You landlord can force you to leave and forfeit your security deposit for lease violations. If, however, your lease doesn't have that clause there is not much that they can do to you aside from not renewing your lease or raising your rent so you'll leave on your own.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
MG5,

As Jeff pointed out and as others responded to you on different threads, the issue is between your landlord (the member) and the Association. In previous threads, you've posted that your landlord doesn't want to get involved in the issue. This pretty much leaves you out of it.

By your own posts, you appear to admit being in violation of the rules. Similar to a police officer pulling you over for speeding just as another car speeds past you - it doesn't negate the fact that you were speeding.

If you don't want to move, then you need to comply with the rules of the Association. If you chose not to comply with those rules, then the issue is between you and your landlord, not between you and the Association. Depending on the conditions of your lease, it's possible that failure to comply with the rules might impact the lease. However, that is also between you and your landlord.

Tim
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
MG5, I suggest you get the governing documents from your landlord, discuss them in detail, and COMPLY WITH ALL RESTRICTIONS. Also, any notice of a violation should be going first to the owner and any fine is to the owner. Your relationship should be with the lessor and not the association. The association's manager should be made aware of the proper procedures to follow is for the owner to be dealing with their leasee not the association.
RZ (Arizona)
Posts: 51
Posted:
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but as a non owner, any HOA violation notices to you may not be enforceable.

The property owner is a party to the CC&R's, not you. Sure, your lease may tie you to obey the community rules, but no where have you signed an agreement directly with the HOA so they have no authority over you.

So, the first thing that seems odd is that the HOA is communicating directly with you. My opinion is the best thing you can do is put the notices in a stack and ignore them. Once the HOA brings your landlord into the situation, then you can present your case for selective enforcement. In the meantime, just keep documenting the issue for when you need it.

Also, it goes without saying- by following the community rules, you will always have the high ground. It seems like HOA's have a natural bias toward renters. Good luck.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
MG,
I cannot help it but I think you starting to sound like an old lady complaining about everything even though I have a feeling you are not an old lady. Gee wiz try to live in the real world, if you can.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
you have no case of selective enforcement because they can't enforce against you, they can only enforce on the owner.
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RZ on 10/11/2011 5:33 PM
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but as a non owner, any HOA violation notices to you may not be enforceable.

The property owner is a party to the CC&R's, not you. Sure, your lease may tie you to obey the community rules, but no where have you signed an agreement directly with the HOA so they have no authority over you.

So, the first thing that seems odd is that the HOA is communicating directly with you. My opinion is the best thing you can do is put the notices in a stack and ignore them. Once the HOA brings your landlord into the situation, then you can present your case for selective enforcement. In the meantime, just keep documenting the issue for when you need it.

Also, it goes without saying- by following the community rules, you will always have the high ground. It seems like HOA's have a natural bias toward renters. Good luck.

The problem is that they can enforce against me. I signed some type of a document with the HOA prior to moving in. I never got a copy of the document, but I do remember them forcing me to sign something that said that I agree to obey all the rules (which of, I only received a brief overview of the rules.... not the complete set). I am expected to follow rules which I do not know, do not have access to, and cannot read. The only rules I can follow is what I have obtained in the bylaws.
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 10/11/2011 6:23 PM
MG,
I cannot help it but I think you starting to sound like an old lady complaining about everything even though I have a feeling you are not an old lady. Gee wiz try to live in the real world, if you can.

I think you would be feeling the same way, if every time you did something, you got slapped with a violation notice and threat of fines! The association turns a blind eye to unit owners. The particular case I am talking about to give you an example.... my neighbors.... have been technically violating a rule for several years. The association has NEVER had a problem with them being in violation of this rule. As soon as I did EXACTLY what my neighbor did... they suddenly have a problem WITH ME ONLY. They continue to let my neighbors break the rule.

The only old ladies are the ones walking around with clipboards and cameras trying to document every possible slight violation and get the property manager to act upon it. I am TRYING to live my life, but every thing I do seems to be "in violation" of some stupid rule!

Let me say again, that I have lived in several HOA's and COA's and I have NEVER even received a SINGLE violation notice, EVER. Yet as soon as I move in here, they are all over me. It may sound like I'm complaining endlessly or making it sound worse then it really is, but I'm not.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
MG, you asked for advice and we tried to give it to you. You don't seem to like our advice and looking for something different. I don't think we can help you much. To summarize what all have said:
- Under normal circumstances HOA can't force you to live by their rules. Their agreement is with the property owner.
- If you signed some type of agreement to live by their rules you need to obey by them. It doesn't matter what they do to other. Just watch after yourself.
- If you don't have a complete set of rules, ask for a copy.
- If you don't like the conditions try talking to the owner about breaking your lease early and move.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The CC&R's are PUBLIC documents and are on record at the records department of the courthouse. So to say you have no access to these records would hold no legal water as they are PUBLIC documents. The piece of paper you signed should have been part of your lease agreement with the owner. Not the HOA. The owner is ultimately responsible for your actions and their property.

So I can only assume a few scenerios here. 1. The HOA doesn't know your not the owner. 2. You or the HOA isn't giving the notification to the owner. 3. They know your a renter and most HOA's don't like renters in their midst. So they will indeed hold you to a higher (or lower) standard. Know that and act accordingly.
Former HOA President
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/12/2011 6:34 AM
The CC&R's are PUBLIC documents and are on record at the records department of the courthouse. So to say you have no access to these records would hold no legal water as they are PUBLIC documents. The piece of paper you signed should have been part of your lease agreement with the owner. Not the HOA. The owner is ultimately responsible for your actions and their property.

So I can only assume a few scenerios here. 1. The HOA doesn't know your not the owner. 2. You or the HOA isn't giving the notification to the owner. 3. They know your a renter and most HOA's don't like renters in their midst. So they will indeed hold you to a higher (or lower) standard. Know that and act accordingly.

I do have access to the condo docs and bylaws in public records. I follow those. The complete set of rules that the board/property manager has made up over time is what I have a problem with. They change them at a moments notice. As far as I can find, they are not required to post these rules into public records. Am I wrong with this?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

MG,

You are correct in that Rules and Regulations are not filed as public record but they must be written out and in the posession of everyone who lives or owns a unit. If you do not have a copy, then get a copy from the office, the property manager or the homeowner. You should have a copy. Get one. If you failed to receive one when you moved in, then it is your responsibility to seek one out rather than be in constant fear of being in violation. Why would you continue to deal with this when you might have access to what your responsibilities are as a tenant by finding out what the rules actually are..?
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 10/12/2011 11:21 AM

MG,

You are correct in that Rules and Regulations are not filed as public record but they must be written out and in the posession of everyone who lives or owns a unit. If you do not have a copy, then get a copy from the office, the property manager or the homeowner. You should have a copy. Get one. If you failed to receive one when you moved in, then it is your responsibility to seek one out rather than be in constant fear of being in violation. Why would you continue to deal with this when you might have access to what your responsibilities are as a tenant by finding out what the rules actually are..?

I have asked for it and I only gotten the abbreviated edition. Property manager claims that is the complete set. That is the problem. They are making up rules to come after with me with. When I ask to see where a specific rule was written, they just type it up and produce a brand new rule and say "see.... here it is." No matter what I do, I cannot appease this association. The law is part of the problem. If they had to post these rules into public records that would help greatly. They could not just change rules from day to day.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
I don't know about Florida, but in California any new rule adopted by a board must be distributed to all owners before it can be enforceable. It also must be document in meeting minutes.

Reading your posts it sounds like you are just very unhappy with the situation where you live, whatever the reason might be. You are not satisfied with any advice given to you here, and you just looking for something else. Why don't you just pack up and move.
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffR7 on 10/12/2011 6:05 PM
Why don't you just pack up and move.

If only it were that easy! Have you ever heard of a lease, moving costs, lawsuits and attorneys fees? It would cost me more than its worth to just pack up and move.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Then just put up with it and let your lease run out. There is nothing else we can suggest or help you in your situation. You think the world is out to get you no matter what we say that will not change.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
MG5,

Here is the bottom line on selective enforcement (it doesn't matter if you are the owner or the tenant):

If you violated the covenants, rules or guidelines and are contacted by the Association, the Association and the violator need to follow their enforcement procedures (to include possible legal action). Be it with the Court or with the Board you are certainly allowed to argue selective enforcement. If the Board and/or court believes that their is selective enforcement then one or more of following things will happen:

1) The violator will be found in violation of the rules and have to pay fine and/or comply with the rule.
2) The Board may be forced to enforce the same rule on all violators (expecting you had proof of the other violations).
3) The Board might be forced to waive your current fine but enforce the rule on all violators.

Since you are a tenant, the reality of the issue is that if you and your landlord successfully argue selective enforcement, you might only succeed in ticking off your neighbors because they are now going to be found in violation of the same rule you proved the neighbors were breaking.

You should consider what your main goal is and the best way to accomplish it and be aware of any intended or unintended consequences the method used will cause.

If you want to keep living where you are, then best advice I can offer is, in writing, request through the landlord a copy of all rules and regulations that you are to follow. Then follow them. If a new rule comes up - complain to the landlord about not being informed about it. Basically - make the landlord do their job.

If you want to "catch the Board" at their games and expose them for what you think they are, you won't be able to unless your landlord is willing to go to court over the issue. The unintended consequences might be your lease is broken and/or time, energy and perhaps money spent in the process.

If you want to live in peace - it appears, based on your posts, that living in peace where you currently reside might be impossible due to factors (the board, etc.) outside of your control. Therefore, you might be better off looking for a new place to live and wait for the lease to end or request to be let out of your lease due to the harassment by the Association (might work). Granted this will also be time, energy and money spent - but you need to decide what your goal is.

Tim
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
MG5,

Here's my opinion . . . comply with all rules of the association and you have absolutely nothing to worry about (forget about what other neighbors are doing). Once you know you are in compliance, from that point forward if any Board Members come to you with violation notices and new, made-up rules that you are breaking, let them know that you are will be contacting the police and will be pursuing legal action to force them to discontinue the harassment.

To do this, you need to get official and up-to-date copies of the CC&Rs, By-Laws, and the rules/regulations. And if any new rules/regulations come out, you need to be informed by your landlord who should be the one receiving the official rules/regulations. If you cannot get the docs on your own, get your landlord to request them from the management company for you. Then you need to be in complete compliance with those documents (again, regardless of what your neighbors are doing). That way, nobody can say that you are violating anything.

Seems pretty simple to me and you don't even need to move. Good luck!

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I think you would be feeling the same way, if every time you did something, you got slapped with a violation notice and threat of fines! The association turns a blind eye to unit owners. The particular case I am talking about to give you an example.... my neighbors.... have been technically violating a rule for several years. The association has NEVER had a problem with them being in violation of this rule. As soon as I did EXACTLY what my neighbor did... they suddenly have a problem WITH ME ONLY. They continue to let my neighbors break the rule.

The only old ladies are the ones walking around with clipboards and cameras trying to document every possible slight violation and get the property manager to act upon it. I am TRYING to live my life, but every thing I do seems to be "in violation" of some stupid rule! (MG)
__

MG,

Let me assure you that I am quite bored with your posts. First, you want to get the power of attorney from your owner and obviously you did not manage that. You want to get rid of the Board and the management company and that too is over your head. Finally, you do not even the courage to state what rules you do not comply with. Such a mystery, right? Anyone who is going to reply to your future posts is just wasting their time, in my opinion.
AlanA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 1
Posted:
It's hard to understand some of the comments in this thread and criticisms leveled against you. Assuming what you say is true, you are being treated unfairly and you have a legitimate gripe.

Your situation is nothing like a cop stopping only one of several speeding violators. It's not possible for all the speeders to be stopped buy one person. But it certainly is possible for the trustees of your association to enforce the laws of the association equally. In fact, they are obligated to do so.

Selective enforcement is a particularly offensive tactic of trustees who abuse their authority. It's the tactic of a bully who pushes you around and dares you to do something about it. And there's the problem. Unless you want to open the money spigots full force on lawyers, in a lawsuit you're likely to lose, there really is very little you can do about it.

I would give you the same advice that others have given you in this thread (although possibly in a different spirit): try not to give these trustees any reason to come after you. But more than that, don't expect that a community governed by a condo/homeowner association is a fair one. Too often it isn't.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. But if it's any small consolation, you're hardly alone.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Alan,
I agree with you. There is sometimes no justice, but this poster's goal was/is to remove the BOD and get rid of the management company (He even wanted to become the BOD member, if I remember correctly ( his first post). It is simply not possible since he is a tenant and his landlord does not want to have anything to do with it. I suggested to him to get a limited power of attorney from the owner to be able to attend the BOD meetings and raise his concerns there but he failed to do that also. In addition the poster would not say what the 'harassment' is all about.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement