Resident Agent not abiding by contract.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

According to the contract we have with our "Resident Agent" she is not to let the master key go to anyone besides her or another Board Member.
The owner with the leak in her unit (This is in my post regarding emails and Board Meetings.) went to the "Resident Agent" with the plumber to see if they could get into the unit above hers.
The "Resident Agent" gave the owner the key and told the owner the control of the key was delegated to the owner I don't even know if the owner of the unit was called or not.
My question is could we be accused of breaking and entering?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Bonnie,

I suppose that your Association could always be accused of breaking and entering or burglary every time someone enters a member's unit. From what you posted, the Association had a valid reason to enter the unit so that shouldn't be too much of a concern in the issue you've posted about.

In my opinion, the question should become, will the Board fire the resident agent over releasing the key or is this a case when the terms of the contract are too strict and need to be modified?

However, it appears that the board still isn't aware of all the facts and gathering the facts on the issue should be done first.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

This is not the only item that the "Resident Agent" is not abiding by the contract. She is composing letters that are to be approved by the Board before they are mailed. She doesn't send them for Board Approval.
She is not actually doing the entire job. She "delegates" a lot of her work.
She does have a hard time walking and may need back surgery, but I wonder if she is not healthy enough to do the job.
I just had an idea perhaps we should get a doctor's statement verifying that she is healthy enought to do the job.
WIthout going into detail there was a legal matter she caused delay on and according to the lawyer on the Board, we could be accuse of contempt of court.
The biggest problem is this Resident Agent is also a Board Member.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Bonnie,

I wouldn't even approach the issue of a Doctor's statement.

It doesn't matter who the resident agent is. It matters if they are fulfilling the terms of the contract. If the resident agent isn't doing the job then it's time to find a new resident agent or use a management company instead.

Tim

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Bonnie:

if the key was just given to another owner who wasn't a board member that in my opinion is a problem. I understand the situation was an emergency and that access was needed but that is the Agent's job. I am assuming you have a contract and I am also assuming the contract spells out steps to solve disagreements. If so follow your contract and put your concern in writing about this incident as in my opinion it shouldn't have happened.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I don't see a problem if it was an emergency sitatuation. Plus you state you don't know all the information. You don't know if the upstairs owner was notified or not. Seems if they didn't complain to the HOA or the Agent about it, then there wasn't a problem. A leaking pipe upstairs is pretty dang serious to the person below. I have seen first hand ceiling collapses from leaking pipes. A real mess. Glad someone took some kind of action before anyone threatened to sue the HOA for not allowing access to a known problem.

A few years ago, I was living in an apartment. My boyfriend at the time had given me a weather alert radio for my birthday.. (Yes you can laugh it was bad a gift). Apparently, that *&&((*&_ thing went off when I was at work. When I got home I received a phone call from the Apartment management. It seems the person downstairs works third shift and thought it was a fire alarm going off. They called the apartment management who came into my apartment without my knowledge. I was told I had to unplug the alarm during the day.

It wasn't a comfortable situation but they did it because it was necessary. We also in our HOA had many elderly people who lived on their own. So it wasn't unusual for some neighbors to enter their homes due to not seeing or hearing that person for awhile. They usually had personal alarms and the on the police contact list. I had some neighbors come up "Missing" in which we had to do a home search with law enforcement to help find them. Unfornately, one such entrance into a home resulted in finding a deceased neighbor. She had fallen from her attic doing a repair and had died. No one had seen her for a few days and went to investigate.

So there are reasons for someone to enter a home other than what is contracted. I don't think the agent violated anything as not every condition to enter a home is written. It should be understood this could happen and not be so critical about it.

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/07/2011 8:22 AM
I don't see a problem if it was an emergency sitatuation. Plus you state you don't know all the information. You don't know if the upstairs owner was notified or not. Seems if they didn't complain to the HOA or the Agent about it, then there wasn't a problem. A leaking pipe upstairs is pretty dang serious to the person below. I have seen first hand ceiling collapses from leaking pipes. A real mess. Glad someone took some kind of action before anyone threatened to sue the HOA for not allowing access to a known problem.

A few years ago, I was living in an apartment. My boyfriend at the time had given me a weather alert radio for my birthday.. (Yes you can laugh it was bad a gift). Apparently, that *&&((*&_ thing went off when I was at work. When I got home I received a phone call from the Apartment management. It seems the person downstairs works third shift and thought it was a fire alarm going off. They called the apartment management who came into my apartment without my knowledge. I was told I had to unplug the alarm during the day.

It wasn't a comfortable situation but they did it because it was necessary. We also in our HOA had many elderly people who lived on their own. So it wasn't unusual for some neighbors to enter their homes due to not seeing or hearing that person for awhile. They usually had personal alarms and the on the police contact list. I had some neighbors come up "Missing" in which we had to do a home search with law enforcement to help find them. Unfornately, one such entrance into a home resulted in finding a deceased neighbor. She had fallen from her attic doing a repair and had died. No one had seen her for a few days and went to investigate.

So there are reasons for someone to enter a home other than what is contracted. I don't think the agent violated anything as not every condition to enter a home is written. It should be understood this could happen and not be so critical about it.

This is a huge problem! a non board member shows up to the office, gets a key to another owner's unit and goes with a plumber and is not escorted by any authority figure. That to me is BAD! Basically in a nutshell I can drive to nebraska tonight with my friend who claims to be a plumber, tell the resident agent I have a leak in my unit and need to get in the unit above, get a key, clean the place out and drive back to Kansas.

Master keys should never be given out to anyone. Let's assume the person getting the key was male and entered this unit and assaulted a female. What kind of trouble would the HOA get into giving a key out to just anyone?

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/07/2011 8:22 AM
I don't see a problem if it was an emergency sitatuation. Plus you state you don't know all the information. You don't know if the upstairs owner was notified or not. Seems if they didn't complain to the HOA or the Agent about it, then there wasn't a problem. A leaking pipe upstairs is pretty dang serious to the person below. I have seen first hand ceiling collapses from leaking pipes. A real mess. Glad someone took some kind of action before anyone threatened to sue the HOA for not allowing access to a known problem.

A few years ago, I was living in an apartment. My boyfriend at the time had given me a weather alert radio for my birthday.. (Yes you can laugh it was bad a gift). Apparently, that *&&((*&_ thing went off when I was at work. When I got home I received a phone call from the Apartment management. It seems the person downstairs works third shift and thought it was a fire alarm going off. They called the apartment management who came into my apartment without my knowledge. I was told I had to unplug the alarm during the day.

It wasn't a comfortable situation but they did it because it was necessary. We also in our HOA had many elderly people who lived on their own. So it wasn't unusual for some neighbors to enter their homes due to not seeing or hearing that person for awhile. They usually had personal alarms and the on the police contact list. I had some neighbors come up "Missing" in which we had to do a home search with law enforcement to help find them. Unfornately, one such entrance into a home resulted in finding a deceased neighbor. She had fallen from her attic doing a repair and had died. No one had seen her for a few days and went to investigate.

So there are reasons for someone to enter a home other than what is contracted. I don't think the agent violated anything as not every condition to enter a home is written. It should be understood this could happen and not be so critical about it.

Melissa, question, when they unplugged your radio did they give your key to your downstairs neighbor and tell him to do it or did the management company do? A HUGE difference.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The key wasn't given to a BOD member is the issue. It was given to a HOA member was it not? It wasn't given to a complete stranger who wasn't a member of the HOA. It was given to a person/member with an interest in protecting their property in an emergency situation. Do you not have a right as a property owner to protect your property?

Maybe the agent should have escorted the plumber and the member to the residence. However, it may have not been possible at the time since not knowing the whole situation. You weren't there and don't know the results between the owners.

I don't see a problem other than a BOD member should have been notified. It was a member of the HOA and it was a situation they were responsible for. I don't see anyone complaining the BOD about any damages and the parties involved aren't complaining...Sounds like someone just doesn't like the agent...

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

you and i will just have to disagree...i compare it to a renting situation and a tenant below you has a leak they suspect from your apartment and they go get the key and go in themselves...that would never happen and should never happen in this case.

Bonnie didn't answer this question but how did the agent know she was a resident? did she provide proof of address, etc?

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

The Resident Agent lives on site thus the term "Resident". We all know each other. The Resident Agent knew that this lady was an owner of the unit with the problem.
But previously to this she did give the master key to a lady that did not own an apartment. She was looking for the apartment her brother had purchased for their mother. She went into a couple of other apartments and not the one she should have gone into. I believe the lady was just confused and did not intentionally go into the wrong apartment, but the master key should definitely not been given to her.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Related, but on another note, This Resident Agent told me her contract had been broken and that she did not have a contract. She signed a contract for a salary of $200.00 a month and then a few weeks later the Board voted to increase it to $350.00 a month. To me she still is under contract. The contracted price was just ameneded. I don't think this lady wants a contract due to some earlier problems the President had with her.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

My question now is does the Resident Agent actually hav a contract. She signed a contract for $200.00 a month, then shortly after signing this contracted requested $350.00 per month. In the minutes I used the word "altered" to describe the change.
She nor the Presidet signed anything stating $350.0 per month.
The lawyer who is on the Board says she is under contract. The Resident Agent emailed us and said that a contract cannot be changed, it can only be amended, therefore she is not under contract. She has accepted pay. Who do you think is the correct about he contract, The lawyer or the Resident Agent? Thanks for your input.
The only thing I can think of is to correct the minutes at the next meeting to replce the word "altered" with "amended".

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

A contact can be verbal and not written.

It's just best if they are written so there are fewer misunderstandings.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

err contract can be verbal . . .