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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
At times I have emailed all Board members with a question or idea. I wonder if this could be considered a Board Meeting? Last night I emailed a maintenance problem (water leaking into the ceiling of a unit not caused by rain) to all Board members. If this is considered a Board Meeting, I will have to discontinue the practice of emailing to all Board Members. Thanks for your help.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Your example of providing information or asking a question about a leak in a unit is not conducting business.

If this is not an emergency, I'd bring it up under new business.

I might even say, by email, to everyone:

There is a leak in Unit 6. It has been reported to the management company or maintenance man. The roof issue needs to be resolved and I will be bringing it up under New Business when we meet Friday.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Discussing an issue with the board via email is not board business.

Making decisions via email that are official HOA actions is board business. However, a leak is an emergency situation in some cases, negating the need to call a meeting and vote as the property is in a form of distress. I'm a board president who will take 99.9% of business before an official meeting. There are two exceptions: 1. Property distress that needs rather immediate attention (fallen trees, major leaks) 2. A amenity's security is threatened or compromised (door lock on clubhouse is broken, someone obtained a key in an unauthorized fashion and used the property for a party).

Then, I'll instruct the property manager to secure our property and inform the board immediately but not ask their vote.

Nice work on paying attention to property needs outside of board meetings. There are too many once-a-monther board members who like attending meetings and have no clue the needs over which they preside.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
But watch the concept of "discuss"

Providing information is different from discussing.

If discussion takes place, it belongs in open session or at the proper time when a motion is made. (You don't want members to think that all the discussion on an issue has taken place before it came to vote. Open debate and the revealment of information is necessary)
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Bonnie:

depends on Nebraska's laws...some states are very strict on laws with regards to this type of communication. Others are not. Up until 2011 we could pretty much do whatever we wanted in Kansas and then that changed dramatically. Emergencies are a different animal.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Bonnie,

At the end of the day, get the darn leak fixed and take your chance that property owners won't sue you for seeing a non-rain based water leak and reporting it to your board. (Just don't slip on the sidewalk while you examine the leak).

Your volunteer "job" is serving the community and you're doing that. People on these threads seem to think the law exists to co-opt one's innate common sense.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/05/2011 7:42 AM
Bonnie,

At the end of the day, get the darn leak fixed and take your chance that property owners won't sue you for seeing a non-rain based water leak and reporting it to your board. (Just don't slip on the sidewalk while you examine the leak).

Your volunteer "job" is serving the community and you're doing that. People on these threads seem to think the law exists to co-opt one's innate common sense.

Kelly

i don't think anyone disagreed that an emergency such as this should be dealt with without a meeting and that providing information is different than discussing. I would just be careful, email is an easy trap to fall into and it is one thing to use it for a situation such as above, but another to start discussing non-emergency things on a constant basis.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Brad,

I agree that using email is a slippery slope for any HOA board that tends to enjoy working in the proverbial dark. Legalities and proper protocol aside, email discussions will get highly passive-aggressive in a hurry, negating such a procedure's effectiveness in many cases.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Even if you were asking to for a consensus on addressing the leak it would be considered an action without a meeting. Action without meetings should be used sparingly and your water leak is an example of when to use it.

It should be annotated in the next regular meeting minutes that you took this action.

ยง 55Aโ€‘8โ€‘21. Action without meeting.

It is also permissible to e-mail information (proposals, etc.) around so the members have time to read it prior to the meeting. However, discussion and voting should be done at the meeting.

Tim
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Here is our 25-story high rise, residents, directors or staffers would immediately report a leak (1) to onsite management during weekdays, 8:30-5:30 or (2) security staff after hours/weekends. Our onsite engineers would inspect the leak or come in if after hours, and contact the appropriate vendor. The board would play no role. But we high rise folks take leaks very seriously!

For "ideas": if a director wants something on the next open meeting's agenda, s/he'd make the written request to the board prez & PM. If the director wants to learn in advance if there's any support for the agenda idea, s/he could contact 2 other directors (board of 7 here) for feedback so that the discussion could not be defined as a "meeting."

Because of previous boards that abused both the letter and the spirit of the (Davis-Sterling) Open Meeting Act, we play it really straight.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Tim

I asked an HOA attorney in my office. Bonnie's email was identifying a problem. She reported a leak. Until they all (speaking for California only) agreed to send someone to plug the leak, no action was taken.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Well........I'd still get the leak repaired very quickly and hope the property owner was more concerned about the water than HOA law. My guess is the property manager would be the appropriate, and vote-free, method of handling this issue in a common sense method.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Richard,

Yep, we are on the same page.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/05/2011 1:54 PM
Well........I'd still get the leak repaired very quickly and hope the property owner was more concerned about the water than HOA law. My guess is the property manager would be the appropriate, and vote-free, method of handling this issue in a common sense method.

Kelly...agreed...when there is imminent danger to life and property in my opinion waiting for a meeting is not appropriate.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Thanks for all your responses. I had no intention of waiting for a Board Meeting to handle this problem. I emailed all Board Members so that every member would be aware of the problem. Technically we have no propery manager. (Due to an illegal vote--long story). We have a Resident Manager that has many health problems. She has a very difficult time walking.
Earlier I had emailed all Board Members about other items including an item regarding our documents and raising the fee.

Since our association began in 1981 there is nothing mentioned in the law regarding emails. We are under the laws for associations built prior to 1984.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Thanks for all your responses. I had no intention of waiting for a Board Meeting to handle this problem. I emailed all Board Members so that every member would be aware of the problem. Technically we have no propery manager. (Due to an illegal vote--long story). We have a Resident Manager that has many health problems. She has a very difficult time walking.
Earlier I had emailed all Board Members about other items including an item regarding our documents and raising the fee.

Since our association began in 1981 there is nothing mentioned in the law regarding emails. We are under the laws for associations built prior to 1984.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/05/2011 7:27 AM
Discussing an issue with the board via email is not board business.

Making decisions via email that are official HOA actions is board business. However, a leak is an emergency situation in some cases, negating the need to call a meeting and vote as the property is in a form of distress. I'm a board president who will take 99.9% of business before an official meeting. There are two exceptions: 1. Property distress that needs rather immediate attention (fallen trees, major leaks) 2. A amenity's security is threatened or compromised (door lock on clubhouse is broken, someone obtained a key in an unauthorized fashion and used the property for a party).

Then, I'll instruct the property manager to secure our property and inform the board immediately but not ask their vote.

Nice work on paying attention to property needs outside of board meetings. There are too many once-a-monther board members who like attending meetings and have no clue the needs over which they preside.

I think some of our previous Board Members were as you described in your last paragraph. But I can honestly say no one on the Board at this time is like that.
This may be why we are having the problems we are having now. We are having problems with our 11 yr old gutters and there is a very good possibility we may need to replace all gutters.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Bonnie,

What you'll find with your new board and its new engagement is that "problems" will arise like leaks, gutter issues, etc. It's simply because your team is paying close attention to what needs to be done. The closer scrutiny will result in many "nickel-and-dime" repairs that were not previous problems because they possibly weren't identified as a need.

At one time, my board installed decorative fountains, extended flower beds (and groundskeeping costs) and other amenities. Over time, with a newer board makeup, we started noticed "stuff" that needed repairing. Frankly, we're still at it, working here and there - nothing urgent yet it needs a board discussion and vote. My thought is that previous board members maybe didn't have the eye or training for property maintenance, not that there was nefarious activity.

This is one of the better threads I've read on this forum in awhile. It had me second-guessing the addressing of active maintenance issues and whether simply notifying the board of an issue is a legal problem in the technical sense. That and I've really enjoyed the challenging points others have posted today.

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