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RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hello,

I am a member of a community that is classified as a planned development in California. These are attached SFRs, 2 homes share a common wall, fence and roof. There are 25 such attachments in the community. Today as per the existing CC&Rs and bylaws; we have roofs, fences, siding, trim, garage of the personal property of the lot owner covered as common components. These common components are included in the reserve study and funded through our monthly dues to the association.

The association has had a history of negligent (sometimes willful) expenditure on common components; and many homeowners (not sure if it constitutes a 75% majority or not) are of the opinion that we should remove the roof, fence, garage, siding, etc. from the common components and give back responsibility of maintaining those components to the lot owner. In short, anything present on the lot of the owner should be his/her own responsibility.

I have been trying to search this board for a topic that resembles my question at point but am not able to get anything conclusive, so posting this question for senior members who may be able to help on this matter:

1. If we have a majority of homeowners requesting to take back the maintenance of their properties, what is the best way to go about removing these components from the governing documents.

2. If we do succeed in removing these from the governing documents, how should disputes between two homeowners be handled by the association. e.g. a shared fence collapses and one homeowner blames it on the other homeowner, and nobody is willing to repair/replace it.

3. How do we handle the issue of pests and organisms ? California law states that the pest and organism issue is each homeowner's responsibility, but negligence from one homeowner can cause the pests and organisms (especially termites) to travel from one home to another, right?

Thanks in advance for your help. Looking forward to your valuable suggestions.
RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Also wanted to add:

2 (a). If the roof, fence, siding, trim, garage are removed from the common components, can the governing documents still control the aesthetic and cosmetic nature of the material that can be used by each lot owner, so that we as a community do not sacrifice on the appearance factor?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 1:38 PM

1. If we have a majority of homeowners requesting to take back the maintenance of their properties, what is the best way to go about removing these components from the governing documents.

This would be done by amending the documents. The Board (or the membership through a petition) calls a meeting and the members vote on the proposed amendment. This is also how the transfer of responsibility should happen.

Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 1:38 PM

2. If we do succeed in removing these from the governing documents, how should disputes between two homeowners be handled by the association. e.g. a shared fence collapses and one homeowner blames it on the other homeowner, and nobody is willing to repair/replace it.

Part of the amendment should address these items and typically the Association would not become involved with neighbor/neighbor disputes. They would rely on the neighbors to settle the issue amongst themselves or through the courts.

I'd suggest language similar to what my Association has about party walls (see attached file)

Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 1:38 PM

3. How do we handle the issue of pests and organisms ? California law states that the pest and organism issue is each homeowner's responsibility, but negligence from one homeowner can cause the pests and organisms (especially termites) to travel from one home to another, right?

Again, this would be a dispute between neighbors. Something the Association should not become involved in.

If you are going to do this. I would also recommend running any proposal through an attorney so the language properly transfers control and/or ownership of the roofs to the members as its possible that in addition to your governing documents, deeds may or may not need to be amended and insurance policies (both homeowner and Association) might need to be amended.

Tim
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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 1:44 PM
Also wanted to add:

2 (a). If the roof, fence, siding, trim, garage are removed from the common components, can the governing documents still control the aesthetic and cosmetic nature of the material that can be used by each lot owner, so that we as a community do not sacrifice on the appearance factor?

Yes. Just like any other Association does - by requiring prior approval from the Association for any exterior changes. If something is changed without prior approval, then the member would be in violation of the covenants for failing to get the approval.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Question:

Is your Association considered a condominium?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
If we do succeed in removing these from the governing documents, how should disputes between two homeowners be handled by the association. e.g. a shared fence collapses and one homeowner blames it on the other homeowner, and nobody is willing to repair/replace it. (Robert)

Robert,

This is the key to your problem. If you cannot make the Board to maintain the buildings how you are planning to manage 50 owners with 50 different opinions? I truly do not think you are on the right tract as of yet. I live in the townhouse community and cannot even imagine the individual owners – some of whom are investors- maintaining the exterior of the buildings, replacing roofs and fences, etc.
The Association has a duty to maintain the buildings and if it does not perhaps you could to consider some other options.

PS: As a side issue: does the association insurance also cover buildings?

RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Tim,

Thank you for the replies. I have checked the welcome packet that I received when I bought into the unit. The welcome packet includes the CC&Rs and bylaws. The CC&Rs have a section from the Department of Real Estate which refers to our project as a common-interest subdivision of the type referred to as a "planned development".

Thanks.

Robert.
RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 10/02/2011 2:10 PM
If we do succeed in removing these from the governing documents, how should disputes between two homeowners be handled by the association. e.g. a shared fence collapses and one homeowner blames it on the other homeowner, and nobody is willing to repair/replace it. (Robert)

Robert,

This is the key to your problem. If you cannot make the Board to maintain the buildings how you are planning to manage 50 owners with 50 different opinions? I truly do not think you are on the right tract as of yet. I live in the townhouse community and cannot even imagine the individual owners – some of whom are investors- maintaining the exterior of the buildings, replacing roofs and fences, etc.
The Association has a duty to maintain the buildings and if it does not perhaps you could to consider some other options.

PS: As a side issue: does the association insurance also cover buildings?


Hello Petunka,

Thanks for replying. You are right about this.

Hence, I would like to know if the association can still mandate that individual homeowners maintain the exterior of the buildings, replace their roof and fences, etc. One such idea was that the association could mandate that homeowners conduct regular inspections through a professional (maybe once every three or five years) of these components to ensure that their exteriors are being maintained properly, and if not, understand in advance about potential problems. These inspections would be required to be filed with the homeowner association.

Thanks again,
Robert.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 10/02/2011 2:10 PM
I live in the townhouse community and cannot even imagine the individual owners – some of whom are investors- maintaining the exterior of the buildings, replacing roofs and fences, etc.

Petunka,

I also live in a Town-home development where the owner is 100% responsible for all items on their property (roof, exterior of building, fences, etc.). I must say, it works very well.

Are you considered a condominium association? Mine is not. This could be the difference.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 2:19:15 PM

Hence, I would like to know if the association can still mandate that individual homeowners maintain the exterior of the buildings, replace their roof and fences, etc. One such idea was that the association could mandate that homeowners conduct regular inspections through a professional (maybe once every three or five years) of these components to ensure that their exteriors are being maintained properly, and if not, understand in advance about potential problems. These inspections would be required to be filed with the homeowner association.

The Association would be responsible for the inspections. This is typically done by an annual walk through by an Architectural committee or management company.

If you require the homeowner to have their unit inspected then you also need to identify what constitutes a qualified inspector, how often the inspections are, what is required to be inspected and what standard will be used as the basis for inspection (as opinions of inspectors can vary).

In my opinion, this would not be a good way to address that issue.

RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
That would be fine too. Most homeowners would not be averse to a special assessment for inspection purposes. They would definitely be wary of putting this under monthly dues though, due to the negligent spending of such reserve funds as stated earlier.

Thanks,
Robert.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Robert,

I think I didn't explain myself well. Once the responsibility is transferred to the member you are effectively giving ownership of those items to the member. Once this is done, the Association typically only has the right to inspect from the street and may not enter the property without the members permission.

Therefore, it wouldn't be like a builders inspection. The inspection would be the opinion if the property appears to be in good repair. The key word being appears (are there missing shingles, are the gutters attached, is the paint pealing, is the concrete work in good repair (no sinking/cracks), do the fences have broken pickets or is it in need of replacement, etc.

RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
That would be a little gray in my opinion. Is it legally possible to mandate that the owners have such an inspection carried out at their own expense from a list of professional agencies reviewed and approved by the board for purposes of such an inspection?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Are you considered a condominium association? Mine is not. This could be the difference. (Tim)

Tim,

Difference? We own the townhouse fee-simple. If a condominium the owners could not take over the maintenance because they do not own the building exterior, i.e they own only the inside of the unit from the dry-wall in.

Perhaps it works in your Association, but I have seen just too many townhouse developments when it simply did not work. Example: one owner bleached his cedar siding and the next door neighbor stained it dark because he liked it. No one could do anything about it.
The docs simply cannot cover all circumstances.

Florida may be also different. We are subject to salt, sun and have many senior and seasonal owners who expect to have everything done for them. Let me assure you it ain’t Fairfax county. But, I still would not recommend it.

PS: Have your read the 10/1/ post by Jim entitled ‘Townhouse siding’?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR13 on 10/02/2011 3:04 PM

Is it legally possible to mandate that the owners have such an inspection carried out at their own expense from a list of professional agencies reviewed and approved by the board for purposes of such an inspection?

I don't know
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Petunka,

Well I'm glad it works for us.

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
"Hence, I would like to know if the association can still mandate that individual homeowners maintain the exterior of the buildings, replace their roof and fences, etc."

Robert,

If you can't trust the board to maintain the common elements who do you think "the association" is above, who will mandate the maintenance? The association can only act through the board. If they are not doing their job, get someone onto the board that will. I think your approach of returning maintenance responsibility to the lot owners would make things worse, not better.
RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 10/02/2011 4:30 PM
"Hence, I would like to know if the association can still mandate that individual homeowners maintain the exterior of the buildings, replace their roof and fences, etc."

Robert,

If you can't trust the board to maintain the common elements who do you think "the association" is above, who will mandate the maintenance? The association can only act through the board. If they are not doing their job, get someone onto the board that will. I think your approach of returning maintenance responsibility to the lot owners would make things worse, not better.

I was hoping to find a way that can allow our association bylaw mandate that the homeowners carry out the inspections, as well as maintain their individual lots entirely.

I understand where you're coming from, but the reality on the ground here is that the association is comprised of members having varying levels of skills and expertise, some members are scrupulous and will contort the law to their favor and the homeowners do not have the time/effort/energy necessary to take such members to court.

The biggest hesitation most members that I know have is to contribute these monies to the reserves. Historically, these monies have been used on completely different line items of the reserve, instead of the allocated line item. For e.g. our association is supposed to have accrued $500K for roofs and sidings, and the total reserve is less than $200K with the roofs or sidings not having been touched at all. The $300K has been spent on some other components, whose details I do not wish to divulge on a public forum.

Hope I am making some sense here.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Robert,

When was your last reserve study update conducted? Are the reserves being funded to the level recommended by the study? If you have had an update to the study since the time that you say the board spent large amounts on other reserve items, then that study should have called for increased contributions to replenish the reserves. If you have not had an update, when is one due?

I'm a bit puzzled by your saying that reserve funds were spent on item you don't want to identify on a public forum. What's that about? Do you suspect something illegal?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I have a feeling that is about a few owners thinking they can save money if they maintain their own property instead of paying assessments. True?
RobertR13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
The reserve study update is conducted every year where we live. Every three years, there is a physical inspection for the reserve study. I do have the answers to your questions, but I am afraid I will be violating certain privacy on this forum, and I do not wish to do that.

Suffice to say, that currently our reserve funds are only partly funded as per our accrued liability on the reserve study. And one of the reasons for that is that approximately $150K was spent on a few components to replace them, whereas the repairs could have been made for just under $40K to the exact same specifications. What made the homeowners more mad was the fact that these component replacements were handed off to vendors without a defined scope of work. So at the end of the replacement, the root cause of the problem was still not fixed, and we had to spend another $30K to do that.

The legality/illegality factor is something I do not want to visit on this post.

All I know is that most homeowners are of the opinion that their reserve funds are not protected securely enough, and are at the discretion of which homeowner comes to the board when. They would rather pay 10% more to handle their own replacements/repairs for their lots, than pay that money to the reserves for it to be spent on some other component altogether.

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