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BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Our CC&Rs define the unit as:

"Unit" shall mean the elements of a Condominium not owned in common with the Owners of other Condominiums within a Project of the Development, designed for use as a residence and consisting of the interior undecorated surfaces of the perimeter walls, floors, ceilings, windows and doors of each Unit and the space encompassed thereby, including the outlets of all utility installations therein and also including the interior surfaces of the firebox of each fireplace extending from the floor to the top of each fireplace, if any and the space encompassed thereby, which adjoins any Unit. Such Unit is sometimes referred to herein as the "Residential Element." Each Unit shall be identified on the Condominium Plan with a separate number(s).

It looks like perimeter walls are walls between units, or between a unit and the common area. What I'm wondering is what is included in "interior undecorated surfaces of the perimeter walls"?

Would it include:
the whole wall (i.e. both sides and everything in between),
half the wall (i.e. everything from one side to a point halfway to the other side),
one finished surface (i.e. only the wallboard or plaster on one side),
or just the finish (i.e. the paint or paper)?

I'm hoping someone here might have more experience with these terms than I do.

Thanks in advance!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Beth,

I think the answer to your question is clearly stated in the definition of a Unit that you posted. It is the "interior undecorated surfaces" of the walls; that is, the surface upon which you apply paint or wallpaper.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I agree with Bruce.

Our high rise HOA's CC&Rs define it about the same as yours, Beth. Owners may decorate their units' walls with paint, paper, paneling mirrors. What we cannot do is penetrate beyond this surface to, for example, move plumbing, wiring, the walls themselves. Those projects require Arch. Committee approval.

So, another place to look that might give you clarity is your Architectural Committee (ARC) documents.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
So this would mean the plumbing behind the walls is considered Common Area or more likely Restricted (exclusive use) Common Area. Does that sound right? Our CC&Rs don't specify.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Beth, Are you saying your HOA has no Architectural Guidelines? This probably is where you'll find th answer that's specific to your condos.

Do you have a specific question about plumbing inside your wall?

Are these condos all attached? High rise? Mid-rise? What configuration?
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Plumbing was definitely not covered in the original architectural guidelines, and they have not changed since 1985. I happened to have them from when I bought the place, but the management company claims they are included in the CC&Rs, which does not talk about plumbing either.

The condos are attached. A two-to-three story building will have 6-8 units, which are separated by common walls. All the plumbing is located in the walls between the units and is not accessible to the homeowners.

Plumbing is exclusive use common area and the CC&Rs lists what exclusive use common area items are the maintenance responsibility of the homeowner. Stuff like the AC unit, hot water heater and forced air unit, window and skylight glass, but nothing about plumbing. I've been reading through the Davis-Sterling site on this issue and they too state that many original CC&Rs were vague about plumbing maintenance.

I'm just wondering how other HOAs are handling plumbing problems. We currently don't have a plumbing reserve fund, but with units that are now 30 years old, maybe we should be considering this.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
I would think that if the plumbing served more than one unit that it would be a common element and should be maintained by the association. Otherwise, how do you allocate responsibility and costs?

Plumbing that served only one unit should be the responsibility of the homeowner.

Imagine a water pipe that runs from the water source and is between the walls and extends the height of the structure, serving three units, one on each floor. That pipe would be a common element. From that pipe there is a "T" that connects the pipe to a shutoff valve serving a particular plumbing fixture (ie., a kitchen sink)located within each unit. Clearly, the shutoff valve is within the unit and the plumbing from the shutoff valve to the plumbing fixture is entirely within the unit and would be the responsibility of the unit owner. The "gray" area is the plumbing (pipe) that connects the "T" to the shutoff valve. Because it serves only one unit is it the unit owners responsibility? Or, because it is mostly contained within the space between to walls, is it an association responsibility? In this situation, I would opt for definitions similar to those used by most utilities. For the electric company, the company is responsible for the wiring up to the weather head. The homeowner is responsible from that point. The gas company is responsible for the gas line up to the meter. The homeowner is responsible from that point. The water company is responsible for the water line up to the external shutoff. The homeowner is responsible from that point. Thus, the association might be responsible for the plumbing up to the shutoff valve and the homeowner responsible for the plumbing after that point.

BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I was able to find this on the Davis-Sterling site and was able to answer my own question. So it appears that even though the homeowner has no access to the plumbing behind the walls, this is exclusive use common area and they are responsible for the maintenance.

Civil Code ยง1364. Responsibility for Maintenance; Termites; Temporary Relocation.

(a) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration of a common interest development, the association is responsible for repairing, replacing, or maintaining the common areas, other than exclusive use common areas, and the owner of each separate interest is responsible for maintaining that separate interest and any exclusive use common area appurtenant to the separate interest.

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