Commando style COA in FL causing problems

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MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

I live in a commando style COA in FL. The board has been taken over by a bunch of power-hungry losers who have nothing better to do with their time, except go around and look for the SLIGHTEST most miniscule violations to inform the on-site property management office about. I have lived in several other condos around Florida and I have never dealt with this level of constant harassment and belittlement. The property manager is the worst of I have ever encountered. She is unapproachable, demeaning, rude, highly arrogant, and thinks she owns the entire property. She threatens everyone (not on the board), with fines and penalties on a constant basis. Her entire day is composed of sending out violation notices and calling people to threaten them. I get at least one violation notice per month, and its about the most miniscule illogical stuff! If there is no violation, then she just makes up a rules and sends me a notice anyway. I get constant harassing phone messages (her yelling, cursing, ect..) from her on a regular basis. She refuses to follow the terms outlined in the by-laws and thinks she is above the law. The first problem I encountered was her refusing to give me a copy of the by-laws. The second problem was her making up a rule that I could not install a satellite dish on a limited common element. She acted like I was trying to murder someone! I had to involve the FCC, essentially sue the association, and ended up winning.

The problem is that I have no power because I'm a renter. She drove the last 2 tenants out of the current property I'm in now. They broke the lease and left after 2 months. There are tons of empty properties in the community because nobody wants to live here anymore. Now because I beat the association and proved she was wrong, she is trying to force me out.

I have obtained a complete copy of the by-laws.

I have been talking to the neighbors and just about everyone agrees that the board is out of control and needs to be voted out.

My question:
1.) If I get assigned proxy from my landlord, will this legally allow me to attend board meetings and cast votes? I attempting to do this now. The property manager has barred me from attending any board meetings "Renters are NOT allowed" she says. Will a proxy allow me to run for any of the seats on the board?

2.) How can I stop the constant harassment? She is selectively enforcing rules against me and letting others slide by. The landlord is absentee and does not want to get involved. Every month its something new with her. Its getting to point where I need get board approval rearrange my deck furniture. Everything is "NOT allowed."

3.) I'm trying to obtain a 3rd parking spot for a 3rd vehicle. I have a one car garage which is occupied by one vehicle. I have a work vehicle outside. According to the by-laws each unit is assigned 2 spaces, but one is considered the garage (it makes no sense because 50% of the people in here pack their garage with junk and take up 2 outside spots and she lets them get away with it). The by-laws state "assigned parking spaces may be transferred by a dwelling unit owner to another dwelling unit owner." and further down "an owner may temporarily lease his or her parking space to another owner".
I have found another unit owner has is willing to lease my unit owner a parking spot for $0. I had the owner send over the paperwork. She calls me and tells me "this is not allowed. If I see a 3rd car on the property I will immediately tow it and fine you...ect threats."
There are no shortage of spots available. There are at least 150 empty spots.
Someone else tried to get a 3rd spot. They went before the board, and of course, the idiots said "no".

4.) She keeps trying to tow my work van (parked outside). She says that because it has a front license plate that says my business name in real small letters, it suddenly becomes a commercial vehicle.....but yet she lets everyone else with cars and trucks that have front plates advertise car dealers! The term "commercial vehicle" is NOT defined in the by-laws.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/26/2011 1:43 PM

My question:
1.) If I get assigned proxy from my landlord, will this legally allow me to attend board meetings and cast votes?

Holding the proxy allows to cast a vote and attend the meeting the vote is cast (typically the general meeting). I do not think it would allow you to attend board meetings, but I could be mistaken on that.

1.) Will a proxy allow me to run for any of the seats on the board?

The requirements for serving on the Board would be within the governing documents (CC&Rs, Bylaws, Articles of Incorporation, Resolutions passed by the Board). If you meet the qualifications (or if there are no qualifications) you may submit your name to run for the Board. Depending on how nominations are handled you may (if nominating from the floor) or may not be accepted (if nominations are solely by committee).

A proxy allows you to represent the member not become the member. You gain no other rights then the right to cast the members vote and attend the meeting where the vote will be cast.

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/26/2011 1:43 PM

2.) How can I stop the constant harassment? She is selectively enforcing rules against me and letting others slide by. The landlord is absentee and does not want to get involved. Every month its something new with her. Its getting to point where I need get board approval rearrange my deck furniture. Everything is "NOT allowed."

Just because someone else is getting away with breaking the rules doesn't negate the fact that you are in violation (if you are).

The issue of selective enforcement has to be challenged by the member. As you pointed out, you are a renter. The Association doesn't have to deal with you. They could just fine the member/landlord for the violations and let the member/landlord deal with you. I know it doesn't seem fair but that is the reality of the issue.

If your landlord/member isn't willing to go to bat for you on these issues, you are just out of luck.

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/26/2011 1:43 PM

3.) I'm trying to obtain a 3rd parking spot for a 3rd vehicle. I have a one car garage which is occupied by one vehicle. I have a work vehicle outside. According to the by-laws each unit is assigned 2 spaces, but one is considered the garage (it makes no sense because 50% of the people in here pack their garage with junk and take up 2 outside spots and she lets them get away with it). The by-laws state "assigned parking spaces may be transferred by a dwelling unit owner to another dwelling unit owner." and further down "an owner may temporarily lease his or her parking space to another owner".
I have found another unit owner has is willing to lease my unit owner a parking spot for $0. I had the owner send over the paperwork. She calls me and tells me "this is not allowed. If I see a 3rd car on the property I will immediately tow it and fine you...ect threats."
There are no shortage of spots available. There are at least 150 empty spots.
Someone else tried to get a 3rd spot. They went before the board, and of course, the idiots said "no".

You should respond that as you read the governing documents this is allowed. Then cite the passage. If they tow, you may be able to seek legal action to recoup the fees for towing improperly.

I'm not sure that this is the best way to go, but it would be an option.

A better way is to have your landlord make the deal with the other member. Then send a copy of the deal to the Association. Their issue is then with the member and not you.

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/26/2011 1:43 PM

4.) She keeps trying to tow my work van (parked outside). She says that because it has a front license plate that says my business name in real small letters, it suddenly becomes a commercial vehicle.....but yet she lets everyone else with cars and trucks that have front plates advertise car dealers! The term "commercial vehicle" is NOT defined in the by-laws.

An Association may make additional criteria for defining "commercial vehicle". Unfortunately, you are a renter. As a renter you are stuck in the middle of the issue. See my response to question 2 as that answer applies here as well.

MG,

I know you probably won't like this posting. However, as your finding out, only members have any say in how the Association is ran. You might do better looking for a better place to rent and cite the perceived harassment from the Association to your landlord as the reason for not renewing the lease. Perhaps the landlord will become more involved and you can help the next tenant. Until you move, or the MC/Board changes, you will most likely have to deal with these things.

Tim

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Q1. If I get assigned proxy from my landlord, will this legally allow me to attend board meetings and cast votes?
A: Yes, you can get a limited proxy to attend the board meetings. The question is how ‘limited’ the proxy is and if you can only attend or also speak on the owner behalf. But no member can cast any votes at the BOD meetings, so am not sure what you mean here.

Q1a:. Will a proxy allow me to run for any of the seats on the board?
A:This is not a question of a proxy. You may have to read the By-laws to determine if non-members can run. But, Tim already answered it.

Q2: How can I stop the constant harassment... The landlord is absentee and does not want to get involved..
A: The problem is that your landlord does not want to get involved. Please check the documents and see if the Association allows for imposing fines for non-compliance with Governing documents. (I am not talking about penalty fees for late payment). Or, what the procedure for notifying members/tenants or guests for non-compliance is.

All you can do and SHOULD do now is to request all the complaints against you in writing. Do not accept any verbal/phone complaints.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

In the contwxt of HoAs... Proxies are not used to convey qualification to attend meetings of any kind. They are to convey voting authority from one member to another.

However, a 'power of attorney' may allow you to attend if your/the HoA docs. specify that a member's 'agent' may attend.

Additionally the docs. would also HAVE to state that a member's designated agent could run for the BoD.

Sorry, renters have few rights and as an owner that's fine with me.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Florida Statutes 720: 306 (8.) a. As you can see, proxies are considered "limited" because they are only valid for the date, time and reason specified on the proxy itself and as Peter has said, they are to be used for elections and sometimes to establish a quorum for annual meetings.to

(8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
(a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Q1. If I get assigned proxy from my landlord, will this legally allow me to attend board meetings and cast votes?
A: Yes, you can get a limited proxy

Correction, I DID NOT MEAN TO SAY PROXY :

a. YOU CAN GET A LIMITED POWER OF ATTORNEY (not proxy) to attend the board meetings. The question is how ‘limited’ the POWER OF ATTORNEY is and if you can only attend or also speak on the owner behalf. But no member can cast any votes at the BOD meetings, so am not sure what you mean here.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

So, if I get a power of attorney and a proxy, I can then attend board meetings and cast votes?

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

'So, if I get a power of attorney and a proxy, I can then attend board meetings and cast votes?'

You can NOT cast any votes at the Board meeting. No one can, except the Board of Directors. All you need to attend the Board meetings is to get a 'limited power of attorney' providing the landord will agree. No proxy.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 09/26/2011 8:20 PM
'So, if I get a power of attorney and a proxy, I can then attend board meetings and cast votes?'

You can NOT cast any votes at the Board meeting. No one can, except the Board of Directors. All you need to attend the Board meetings is to get a 'limited power of attorney' providing the landord will agree. No proxy.

By casting votes, I meant to vote in new board members during election time or vote to change the by-laws or something major that requires members to vote?

Would I need to get a power of attorney written for every single meeting or can one cover an entire year (do they expire)?

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

I found the two sections in the condo docs. The first is about proxy votes. My condo is owned by a husband and wife jointly. If I reading this correctly, proxies are allowed, but only limited, and only for a specific vote.
[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mrxpower/Screenshot2011-09-26at114643PM.png[/IMG]

The second is more about proxies and who is eligible to run for board. It does not look like I would eligible. There is no mention of who is allowed to attend regular board meetings or anything about power of attorney.
[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mrxpower/Screenshot2011-09-26at114751PM.png[/IMG]

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

You rented in good faith. Your landlord is sitting back collecting rent from you while you face constant harassment from the property manager. Your landlord (the owner of your unit) is not doing his part and, from what you stated above, has no intention of keeping the property manager off your butt.

My best advice would be to serve your landlord with written notice of the all the harassment you have endured and the threats you have received from the property manager and demand that he cure the problem. And then when he fails to act, as you know he will, move out and sue him for the expenses you incur.

The property manager is there because apathetic owners, such as your landlord, let her behave like an ass.

In the meantime, I would also recommend obtaining a court order to keep the property manager away from you and your vehicles and to prohibit her from having any contact with you except with the court's permission.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Power of attorney: Many documents are silent on this issue. Nevertheless, the owner can appoint an ‘agent’ to attend and possibly participate in the Board meeting and members’ meeting. Our Association has always accepted such a power of attorney. This does NOT mean you can vote at members’ meeting on any issue.

Serving on the Board of Directors: IF your docs state that only recorded member can serve on the board, a power of attorney could NOT be used to allow non-members to serve.

Proxies: Proxies are different. Proxies can only be used at membership meetings, not board meetings. Many documents also do NOT allow a non-owner to be a proxy holder to vote at members’ meetings. (see your docs and Chapter 718)

The owner of your unit may consider to give you a limited power of attorney to attend all meetings. Keep in mind that you, as his’ agent’ must follow his directions. However, if a power of attorney is not properly executed the Board does not have to accept it. And, not every owner is eager to spend $300 on attorney’s fees to produce such document. I think you ought to talk to the owner and ask him/her if they are willing to give you the power of attorney to attend the meetings.

Chapter 718: ‘Except as specifically otherwise provided herein, unit owners may not vote by general proxy, but may vote by limited proxies substantially conforming to a limited proxy form adopted by the division.’

General proxies may be used for other matters for which limited proxies are not required, and may be used in voting for nonsubstantive changes to items for which a limited proxy is required and given’

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0718/0718.html

PS: I could not open the files.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Parking spaces:

'The by-laws state "assigned parking spaces may be transferred by a dwelling unit owner to another dwelling unit owner." and further down "an owner may temporarily lease his or her parking space to another owner".

According to this provision only your landlord can lease a third parking space, not you.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Parking space: What I would suggest here, is to ask an owner to sign an agreement with another owner for a third parking space and amend your rental agreement and send copies of both papers to the MC. That should do it.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

You can open my links if you delete the IMG tags. This forum will not allow edits or recognize HTML codes.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

Is there a way to get POA without using an attorney and spending $100's? What form is needed for Proxy or POA?

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/27/2011 9:06 AM
You can open my links if you delete the IMG tags. This forum will not allow edits or recognize HTML codes.

You can't edit, but it does recognize some HTML codes like bold and italic.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

the 'violation' notices are only against the MEMBER (owner) of the association

you have NO contractural obligations with the HOA (unless written into your LEASE)

tell the HOA commandos to 'go fly a kite' and take the issue(s) to the actual owner/member

in other words: ignore the idiots ... this WILL drive them INSANE

be prepared to move ASAP ... you don't need this BS

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 09/27/2011 10:07 AM
the 'violation' notices are only against the MEMBER (owner) of the association

you have NO contractural obligations with the HOA (unless written into your LEASE)

tell the HOA commandos to 'go fly a kite' and take the issue(s) to the actual owner/member

in other words: ignore the idiots ... this WILL drive them INSANE

be prepared to move ASAP ... you don't need this BS

I'm looking over my lease right now. The only thing it says is that I shall obey the governing documents, rules, and restrictions of the association. The problem is that I am obeying the rules, the property manager is not. I also can't be expected to follow rules that are made-up on the spot, are illegal, or contrast what is written in the by-laws.

I don't believe I have signed any type of contract with the HOA.

I don't respond to the property manager anymore. I know her number and send it straight to VM. I've got a stack of all her violation notices kept on file, but I have never responded.

I don't see anything in the lease that would allow me to move because the property manager is an out to get me. The landlord would try to sue me for the entire remainder of the lease if I left and they would keep my sec dep and the last months rent.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

'Is there a way to get POA without using an attorney and spending $100's?’

Yes, you can draft it and ask the owner to have it notarized. Just a word of caution. If the BOD/Management company does not want you to attend any meetings they could send a copy to the Association attorney for a review/approval. And, that may end that effort.

‘What form is needed for Proxy or POA?’

POA: There are Florida POA forms for sale on line or perhaps you can find a free example. Or, check your library, Staples, Office Depot. I have not searched for them.

Proxies: Limited/general proxies and absentee ballots are sent to all owners by the BOD. ONLY the owners can fill out proxies these docs. The owner then designates a proxy holder.

‘Can a non-member be a proxy holder in our condo?‘ I do not know. Please ask someone or check your docs and Chapter 718.

It really is a little hard to break the ice here since I cannot figure out what your goal/intent with all this is? But, again, it is none of my business.

PS: When I search for the link you provided even without IMG tags all I am getting is HOATalk. I will try later when I have a little more time... am not familiar with ‘photobucket’.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

you promised to 'obey the rules' TO YOUR LAND-LORD, not the HOA

any issues of the HOA should be addressed to the MEMBER (your land-lord)

you can NOT breach a non-existant contract between yourself and the HOA

if your land-lord (the HOA member) has an issue with you it would be the potential breach of the LEASE contract

you have a legal right to 'peacefull enjoyment' of your leased property

if your land-lord is not providing same: sue or move

any futher advice should come from an attorney, not us internet 'hacks'

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

My main objective is get rid of the current 3 commandos on the BOD, which will in-turn get rid of the property manager. The only reason why she is still employed here is because of these 3 idiots. The rest of the members want her gone and so does 95% of the community. If she goes, my problem is solved (assuming they don't find someone worse, which would be difficult). There are 3 months until BOD elections. I would like to cast a vote in this upcoming election on behalf of my landlord. If I could get into the BOD monthly meetings, that would be a plus.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

Simple... talk with neighbor(s), have your landlord (member) assign his proxy to a [sympatheic, agreeing, etc.] neighbor (member) who agrees with your views and BoD candidates.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

Wouldn't it make it easier for me to get the proxy so I know that the votes are cast on-time and for the correct candidates?

What is the FL legal definition of a "Commercial Vehicle". I'm seeing several listed online.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

"Wouldn't it make it easier for me to get the proxy so I know that the votes are cast on-time and for the correct candidates?"

I wouldn't know.

Do you think/expect its going to be so close that one vote (yours) decides it?

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

I live in an HOA (which is under FL 720) But, this is from FL 718.112 (d) (the condo statute)
4. The members of the board shall be elected by written ballot or voting machine. Proxies may not be used in electing the board in general elections or elections to fill vacancies caused by recall, resignation, or otherwise, unless otherwise provided in this chapter.
So, I would stop trying to figure out a way to get a proxy from your landlord to enable you to vote in the next election.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MG5 on 09/27/2011 3:38 PM
My main objective is get rid of the current 3 commandos on the BOD, which will in-turn get rid of the property manager. The only reason why she is still employed here is because of these 3 idiots. The rest of the members want her gone and so does 95% of the community. If she goes, my problem is solved (assuming they don't find someone worse, which would be difficult). There are 3 months until BOD elections. I would like to cast a vote in this upcoming election on behalf of my landlord. If I could get into the BOD monthly meetings, that would be a plus.

As Peter said in one of his previous posts, the tenants have certain rights. But this is not one of them, believe me or not. Use diplomacy, may be? Sorry, I can’t be of further help. Good luck.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

MG5:

You are NOT a member of the association and therefor will have NO SAY in how it is run and/or managed.

You have no direct financial stake in the association and do not and should not have input into how the $$$ is spent or managed.

If you wish to be a property ownerthen, by all means, purchase property.

You are a renter whos only recourse is from your land-lord.

Sorry if the facts are unpleasant to hear.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39

Posted:

I am trying to get the landlord to help me out and start standing up for me. Its hard because their is a property management company in the middle, that manages my property on behalf of the landlord who lives in a different state.

I will attempt to try to get the landlord to vote based on my recommendations and I'm going to try to gather as much support as possible from other voting members, to get rid of the commandos.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

'I will attempt to try to get the landlord to vote based on my recommendations and I'm going to try to gather as much support as possible from other voting members, to get rid of the commandos.'
__
Now you talking.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

good luck

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

"Power hungry losers, unapproachable, demeaning, rude, highly arrogant, I sued the association, idiots, I have a stack of violations but never responded, commandos, and 3 idiots"

Hummmmmmm, I wonder why someone is having problems getting his issues respolved

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

the OWNER/MEMBER has a stack of violations

the renter probably has a lease violation

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

John,

I understand that but the tenant is the person interacting with the P.M. The tenant wrote the post with what he perceives the Board and P.M. to be "idiots" etc.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

donna,

HE does not understand ...... he needs to be educated that his only obligation/responsibility is to his land-lord

if the BOD/property mgmt co is interacting with the tenant and not the member/owner ... then, they are, infact: ignorant (if not actual imbeciles)

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

‘the BOD/property mgmt co is interacting with the tenant and not the member/owner ... then, they are, infact: ignorant (if not actual imbeciles) ‘ (John)

John, with all due respect you may not understand what the Association covenants state about the ‘lease’ agreements’. Our HOA – being in Florida- can interact with the tenant and even cancel his lease. It all depends and it is a good idea not to assume anything as you do.

LoriL1 (Florida)
Posts: 78

Posted:

FYI - Florida Condo Law:

718.303 Obligations of owners and occupants; remedies.—(1) Each unit owner, each tenant and other invitee, and each association is governed by, and must comply with the provisions of, this chapter, the declaration, the documents creating the association, and the association bylaws which shall be deemed expressly incorporated into any lease of a unit. Actions for damages or for injunctive relief, or both, for failure to comply with these provisions may be brought by the association or by a unit owner against:
(a) The association.
(b) A unit owner.
(c) Directors designated by the developer, for actions taken by them before control of the association is assumed by unit owners other than the developer.
(d) Any director who willfully and knowingly fails to comply with these provisions.
(e) Any tenant leasing a unit, and any other invitee occupying a unit.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Good Post Lori,

Non Florida posters probably are not aware of the Florida laws that do make a Tenant responsible for their actions and Boards DO have the enforcement powers against tenants. It helps if the governing documents back that up but tenants may receive fines for non compliances. Tenants may also may lose their rights to use of common elements and amenities, just like owners have. My association where I have a rental requires Tenants to sign a documents saying that they have read and understand the covenants and rules.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

IMO (probably worthless):

The OP is correct in his use of the word 'GESTAPO' (even though it seems to be a legally established contractual organization in a FL HOA).

This is very very very close to actual Fascism, ie. private ownership but 'government' (HOA & State) control down to and including the color of the front door.

I stand corrected re: FL HOA law.

I will maintain future silence on this matter.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

John,

Silence is not required because we need to hear other perspectives and opinions. Yours are always good posts and sometimes we are not all seeing the matter the same. Never the less, you just keep getting in the mix. I have been called out once or twice but that certainly would never keep my yap shut because I too have an opinion. Who is right and who is wrong? Your guess is as good as mine.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

DonnaS,

I have said all I have to say re: this particular post/topic.

I am pretty sure I will chime in on other posts/topics.

off topic:

LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC

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