💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Okay, once again one homeowner who continually keeps causing grief sent one of the Board members a letter stating "I've been advised that mail taped on a door is not considered legally delivered/received." Now keep in mind the BOD knows this homeowner rec'd the notice because she sent out an e-mail to every homeowner in the subdivision except the Board and wanted to know "what the special assessment was" and why the BOD was spending XXX amount of $$. This homeowner also assumed everyone in the subdivision rec'd the notice. This was a small fine specifically to only two members due to legal fees incurred when terminating the PM who was in breach of their contract. We rec'd several iquiries from other homeowners regarding the
special assessment and had to tell them there was no special assessment.

Does the HOA have to send notices thru U.S. mail to have a notice be legally delivered/received? The BOD believes no and this homeowner is wrong. Any suggestions?

The BOD is having the attorney send out the "2nd" notice.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Karen,

Usually your governing documents will say what constitutes proper delivery. Ours says, "Such notice shall be delivered personally or sent by United States mail, postage prepaid, statutory overnight delivery, or issued electronically in accordance with Chapter 12 of Title 10, the 'Uniform Electronic Transactions Act.'"

Your documents will probably have something different, but similar.

Usually taping something to someone's door is not sufficient to be an official notice.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 09/24/2011 3:31 PM
Karen,

Usually your governing documents will say what constitutes proper delivery. Ours says, "Such notice shall be delivered personally or sent by United States mail, postage prepaid, statutory overnight delivery, or issued electronically in accordance with Chapter 12 of Title 10, the 'Uniform Electronic Transactions Act.'"

Your documents will probably have something different, but similar.

Usually taping something to someone's door is not sufficient to be an official notice.

Our by-laws state they may be delivered to the homeowners residence or U.S. mail.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 09/24/2011 3:31 PM
Karen,

Usually your governing documents will say what constitutes proper delivery. Ours says, "Such notice shall be delivered personally or sent by United States mail, postage prepaid, statutory overnight delivery, or issued electronically in accordance with Chapter 12 of Title 10, the 'Uniform Electronic Transactions Act.'"

Your documents will probably have something different, but similar.

Usually taping something to someone's door is not sufficient to be an official notice.

Our by-laws state they may be delivered to the homeowners residence or U.S. mail.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Keep in mind anything put into someone's mailbox must have a stamp on it or it is a FEDERAL offense. Putting notices on doors may fall under "Solicitation" which may NOT be allowed. It is either in your HOA's documentation about solicitation or it may be a local law. We had a no solicitation sign at the front of our entrance so that sales people or those who pass out those annoying flyers could be warned.

There are several methods of notification that a HOA may use. Usually it is defined in your documentation. However, delivery in the mail is the best and most frequently used option. First Class mail for normal notices. Registered mail for legal type notification. If the HOA wants to save money and paper, then an email system can be set up and used. A website is used for some tech savvy HOA's. Our HOA was neither tech savvy or rolling in the dough, so we used the old fashioned bulletin board at the front entrance. It was a glass case right over the group mailboxes. We rarely mailed anything unless it was legal related.

So look up your local solicitation rules in your documentation and/or local statutes. Send this owner a notice referencing this as a violation. Give it as a warning. The BOD are members too and if they do choose to send out any more of their own advice to the other members they must send a copy to ALL the members. The BOD are just the elected members who are elected to handle the issues of the HOA on a daily basis and for the general membership. They aren't a "They and them". They were picked by "You and me"....

Former HOA President
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
If you want it recognized by the courts or other authorities USPS Duplicate Return Receipt is the only way to go regardless of your HOA bylaws.
EbonyJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Our bylaws also state notices can be given either personally or by mail.. However we always mail the annual notices. When we had a special meeting we went to each door to get signatures and if people were not home, we left the notices (in an envelope addresed to the homeowner )in the solitication box located under each mailbox.All the out of rental properties were mailed. Our board refused to send the notices out or acknowledge the call for a special meeting, nor did they attend the meeting.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/24/2011 4:30 PM
Keep in mind anything put into someone's mailbox must have a stamp on it or it is a FEDERAL offense. Putting notices on doors may fall under "Solicitation" which may NOT be allowed. It is either in your HOA's documentation about solicitation or it may be a local law. We had a no solicitation sign at the front of our entrance so that sales people or those who pass out those annoying flyers could be warned.

There are several methods of notification that a HOA may use. Usually it is defined in your documentation. However, delivery in the mail is the best and most frequently used option. First Class mail for normal notices. Registered mail for legal type notification. If the HOA wants to save money and paper, then an email system can be set up and used. A website is used for some tech savvy HOA's. Our HOA was neither tech savvy or rolling in the dough, so we used the old fashioned bulletin board at the front entrance. It was a glass case right over the group mailboxes. We rarely mailed anything unless it was legal related.

So look up your local solicitation rules in your documentation and/or local statutes. Send this owner a notice referencing this as a violation. Give it as a warning. The BOD are members too and if they do choose to send out any more of their own advice to the other members they must send a copy to ALL the members. The BOD are just the elected members who are elected to handle the issues of the HOA on a daily basis and for the general membership. They aren't a "They and them". They were picked by "You and me"....

The mail boxes for the subdivision are located outside of the subdivision - the HOA cannot put anything into those mail boxes nor would they as we know that is a Federal offense. The HOA has always just put the notices in everyone's doors and never had a problem until this one homeowner who has never owned a home in a HOA and continually causes problems. The annual meeting notices or special meeting notices are always sent via U.S. mail.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PeterD3 on 09/24/2011 4:32 PM
If you want it recognized by the courts or other authorities USPS Duplicate Return Receipt is the only way to go regardless of your HOA bylaws.

These are fine notices not any meeting or special meeting notices.

Found this interpretation of "notice".

"Notice" means notice given in writing by either regular mail or hand delivery, with the sender retaining sufficient proof of having given such notice. However, a person shall be deemed to have notice of a fact if he has actual knowledge of it, he has received a verbal notice of it, or from all of the facts and circumstances known to him at the time in question, he has reason to know it exists. A person "notifies" or "gives" a notice or notification to another by taking steps reasonably calculated to inform another person whether or not the other person actually comes to know of it.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 09/24/2011 5:28 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/24/2011 4:30 PM
Keep in mind anything put into someone's mailbox must have a stamp on it or it is a FEDERAL offense. Putting notices on doors may fall under "Solicitation" which may NOT be allowed. It is either in your HOA's documentation about solicitation or it may be a local law. We had a no solicitation sign at the front of our entrance so that sales people or those who pass out those annoying flyers could be warned.

There are several methods of notification that a HOA may use. Usually it is defined in your documentation. However, delivery in the mail is the best and most frequently used option. First Class mail for normal notices. Registered mail for legal type notification. If the HOA wants to save money and paper, then an email system can be set up and used. A website is used for some tech savvy HOA's. Our HOA was neither tech savvy or rolling in the dough, so we used the old fashioned bulletin board at the front entrance. It was a glass case right over the group mailboxes. We rarely mailed anything unless it was legal related.

So look up your local solicitation rules in your documentation and/or local statutes. Send this owner a notice referencing this as a violation. Give it as a warning. The BOD are members too and if they do choose to send out any more of their own advice to the other members they must send a copy to ALL the members. The BOD are just the elected members who are elected to handle the issues of the HOA on a daily basis and for the general membership. They aren't a "They and them". They were picked by "You and me"....


The mail boxes for the subdivision are located outside of the subdivision - the HOA cannot put anything into those mail boxes nor would they as we know that is a Federal offense. The HOA has always just put the notices in everyone's doors and never had a problem until this one homeowner who has never owned a home in a HOA and continually causes problems. The annual meeting notices or special meeting notices are always sent via U.S. mail.

Meant to say the mailboxes are locked.
EbonyJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 62
Posted:
In our situation, board refusal to mail notices. Is there anyway to make the board mail them out if you have the required signature, the volunteers spent a lot of money on copies, postage, and time walking the neighborhood for three months (205 homes). We also made remainder flyers for each house two days before the meeting. The board was removed, but now they are challenging the meeting cause they felt we did not give proper notice and they did not authorize it
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
KarenT

How notice is defined in your bylaws will not necessarily be how it is defined for another Association.

You said “Our by-laws state they may be delivered to the homeowners residence or (by) U.S. mail”.

You were asking about delivery of a “Fine Notice”. Exact words are important – for example is the word notice modified by any – for example - “shall deliver ANY notice”.

If the word ANY is there, then it would probably also apply to the delivery of a “fine Notice”, as well as meeting notices, etc.

Knowing the exact words of the section re Notice would help.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I've been advised that mail taped on a door is not considered legally delivered/received. Does the HOA have to send notices thru U.S. mail to have a notice be legally delivered/received? The BOD believes no and this homeowner is wrong. Any suggestions? (Karen)

Karen,
If you'd tape a Notice on my the door, it would be just fine with me. And am sure, most normal people would not object to it either.
Do not even spend another second worrying about it and just snail-mail future Notices it to him. He’ll find something else to complain about soon, no doubt.
JohnH31 (Texas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I think it is very important here to understand that this issue may vary from state to state. The HOA laws are often dynamic and change over time. The state law over rules the HOA governing documents. In Texas our state legislature has changed a lot of the rules this year in their legislative session. Some of the bills they passed specifically state that any provision in any HOA governing documents that contradict the new laws are void. Your association attorney will know the answer to this right off the top of his head. If he does not you need a different attorney. You could probably get clarification with a $50 phone call and then you would know once and for all (unless the law changes things)
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 09/24/2011 5:28 PM
The mail boxes for the subdivision are located outside of the subdivision - the HOA cannot put anything into those mail boxes nor would they as we know that is a Federal offense. The HOA has always just put the notices in everyone's doors and never had a problem until this one homeowner who has never owned a home in a HOA and continually causes problems. The annual meeting notices or special meeting notices are always sent via U.S. mail.

Let me get this straight. You have a homeowner who is known to cause problems (your description of her)and you are surprised that she is claiming that a fine notice was improperly delivered. If it had been me, I would have left it on my door until it fell off and at no time claimed to have seen it. You should have sent it first class return receipt AND by first class mail.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Many years ago I was a licensed process server. The standard for legal notice from the court is generally that the party being served must understand that the notice was issued by the court and the person serving the notice is authorized by the court to do so. The person serving the notice has the obligation to verify that the party being served is either the person named in the notice or is authorized by law to accept service for that person. Standard practice when serving process is that the court issues an original and a copy of the document, the process server takes both with him so that he may show the original to the person being served, and leave the copy. The original, which has a raised seal, is then returned to the court and placed in the case file. The process server executes an affidavit stating how, when, where, and upon whom he served the notice.

I do not recommend service by mail, even certified mail, because the person who signs the receipt may not be authorized to accept service and because a sealed envelope is not obviously a legal notice. I know of several cases where notices were signed for by relatives and then set aside unopened for months before the relative gave the notice to the intended party.

My advice to any HOA would be to develop a procedure for serving notices of fines or violations. It need not be as formal as a court proceeding. There should be an original notice signed by an officer designated by the BOD. A copy should be hand-delivered to the homeowner if it is practical to do so, otherwise I would recommend adopting a by-law that a notice may be served on any adult occupant of the property. The person serving the notice should be a volunteer homeowner who is not otherwise involved in the dispute. He should execute a statement as to whom the notice was delivered to, when, and where.

You may also want to study what your state accepts as service of process and adopt similar rules for your HOA. In Arizona, for example, taping a summons and complaint to a tenant's door is sometimes sufficient for legal service in forceable detainers (evictions).
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
for a 'legal notice':

process server ($$$)

or

USPS certified mail-return receipt-'deliver to addressee only'

or

whatever your documents specify (assuming compliance with state/local law)
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Karen,

I believe "First Class, Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested" would satisfy most courts if it gets to that point. Most likely that's how your lawyer is going to send the "second" notice.

I would have not have taped the original notice to the door. It's too open to debate as to proper delivery, etc., especially since this homeowner is known to be a troublemaker.

I would have sent the original notice by ordinary USPS First Class Mail. If the homeowner failed to comply then I would have sent a second notice by Certified Mail (as above) with additional statement in the notice that failure to comply will result in the homeowner's account being turned over to an attorney for collection with additional attorney's and collection costs being incurred by the homeowner.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I've heard of a case of the HOA deciding to foreclose on an owner's property. The owner's defense was the HOA wasn't delivering the notice to their home. They actually didn't live in that home but somewhere else. Their tenant was getting the notices. They claimed they were unaware and never notified properly about the foreclosure since the HOA did not send the notices properly.

This did NOT fly at all in the court system. The HOA has no choice but to send notices directly to the HOA house address. Yes, they may know the owner doesn't live at the residence. However, it is the address of the property in the HOA. Plus, it is printed in the local newspaper for a time period. Which this is considered "PUBLIC NOTICE". Whether they read the newspaper or not doesn't matter. It was printed in a PUBLIC resource they could have access to.

Sending out notices by mail, it should be done to the property in the HOA. If the owner lives elsewhere, they should make arrangements with the HOA. It should be understood where ALL HOA communications will be delivered to. That way an owner can't claim they weren't informed properly....

Former HOA President
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Melissa,

Interesting.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Karen,

The reality of your issue is that it will only become an issue if someone wants to legally challenge something the Board did based on failure to follow procedures. If this happens, then the Board will need to prove that they did indeed deliver any notices in accordance with your bylaws. I suspect that a signed statement from the individual delivering the items and their appearance in court would be enough proof (providing your bylaws allow for hand delivery).

For proof by the U.S. mail, we purchase the number of stamps needed for the mailing and send one of those letters back to the association. We then clip the receipt for the stamps to the unopened letter sent back to the Association and keep it as an attachment to the minutes as part of our proof of notice. The other option would be via certified mail.

Proof of delivery is not the same as proof of receipt.

We had one person who refuses to pick up certified mail from the Association. In these cases, we would send one letter via certified mail and one letter via first class mail. This fact would be stated within the letter being sent. This helped to prevent the person from saying that they were unaware of what was in the letter because they never picked it up from the post office.

For your specific issue, you need to look at what the law requires, as well as your own governing documents (as they can be more restrictive then the law).

Per Washington nonprofit corporation act, RCW 24.03.080 Notice of members' meetings,

"If notice is provided in a tangible medium, it may be transmitted by: Mail, private carrier, or personal delivery; telegraph or teletype; or telephone, wire, or wireless equipment that transmits a facsimile of the notice. If mailed, such notice shall be deemed to be delivered when deposited in the United States mail addressed to the member at his or her address as it appears on the records of the corporation, with postage thereon prepaid. Other forms of notice in a tangible medium described in this subsection are effective when received."

Note: Tangible medium = a writing, copy of a writing, facsimile, or a physical reproduction, each on paper or on other tangible material.

If I was on your board, since the homeowner stated "I've been advised that mail taped on a door is not considered legally delivered/received", I would have asked her for the proof (section of law, court case, etc.) that supports this advice and, once received, the Board will consider the issue. However, it is the Boards understanding that hand delivery is in compliance with Washington State nonprofit corporation act. In other words, put the burden of proof back on the homeowner while indicating a willingness to change procedures providing proof of her statement can be provided.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Tim,

Thank-you for your response. We appreciate it!

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here