patios and ground settling.

Started by BonnieG1 • 13 replies • 1673 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

I think I have asked something similar before, but can't find it.
Our documents state that the patio upkeep and repair is the responsibility of the unit owner that has the patio.

The ground has settled allowing water to seep in at times around the base of the buidling.
Some of this involves patios connected to a unit and other areas are not connected to a unit.

I personally think the Association should be responsible for the volcuninzing of the base around the building since it is the building that actually needs repaired and not the patio. I don't think this is something that should be done piecemeal.

I have asked the President if we are going to do the repairs and that charge each paio owner a percentage. So far I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer.

I apprciate any thought you have on this. Thank you.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

BonnieG1,

Is your Association a Condominium? And if yes are the patios defined as Limited Common?

The exact words from your Documents re: “Patios” and “the Building” would help. Also the paragraphs that address “upkeep” and “repair”.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The HOA may do something about the ground water seepage causing the damage, but I think the owner's are responsible for the actual patio repairs. This would be the most fair and equitable repair for everyone involved. However, you do realize that everyone will still be paying for this repair since it comes out of the HOA's budget.

Former HOA President

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Bonnie,
I guess the Association is responsible for maintaining the exterior of all buildings and owners are responsible for maintain the patios? Who is responsible for repairs in the instance you are describing is hard to tell. It could be one of those gray areas. You may want to get an opinion of a structural engineer to determine what causes the water to seep under the buildings.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EllieD on 09/23/2011 4:53 PM
BonnieG1,

Is your Association a Condominium? And if yes are the patios defined as Limited Common?

The exact words from your Documents re: “Patios” and “the Building” would help. Also the paragraphs that address “upkeep” and “repair”.

We are a 43 unit senior condominium in NE. I don't remember actually seeing the work building in our document, but I will review this later when I have more time.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Yes patios are described as Limited Common areas in our documents. When I first read this I understand that to mean the Association is responsible, but another Board member thinks it is the owner's responsibility.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/23/2011 5:18 PM
The HOA may do something about the ground water seepage causing the damage, but I think the owner's are responsible for the actual patio repairs. This would be the most fair and equitable repair for everyone involved. However, you do realize that everyone will still be paying for this repair since it comes out of the HOA's budget.

YEs, I realize that everyone will be paying for the repairs if it comes out of our budget. (This is the first yr we have had a budget in years. I figured the budget, presented it, the Board approved it with no input from any other member) While starting to prepare for the next annual meeting, I noticed a couple errors in the budget. I know we can revise the budget, but the President doesn't want to revise it. I put one item in twice and forgot to put our savings in the budget.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Since our documents state the owner of the unit with the patio is responsible for "routine" maintenance and repair, I checked the meaning of "routine" in the dictionary. The meaning is "a procedure that is regular and unvarying in sequence."
To me ground settling does not meet this definition. Having snow removed would meet this definition. What are your thoughts.
I got the other members of the Board upset with me when I stated that I agreed with this "problem" member on another issue. I am certain this is going to be an uphill battle with the Board.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

BonnieG1,

I believe you are interpreting correctly.

When referring to LIMITED Common there is often confusion between what is meant by “Owner maintenance” vs “Association maintenance” even when the word “routine” does not precede maintenance.

Typically owner maintenance of Limited Common Areas means – keep clean, sweep, do not damage - that sort of thing.

While Association maintenance means – keep in good shape, to repair, to paint, to replace, to re-build.

In a sense you are lucky because your Document has the word “routine” in front of maintenance, which helps to clarify the meaning of Owner maintenance.

Also, you said that the ground is settling, causing water to seep in around the base of the building.

Has the Association hired anyone investigate to find out if there might be a drainage problem, and to advise how best to correct?

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Bonnie and Ellie, you are correct.. it is not a maintenance issue it may be a construction issue and this is why I suggested to consult a structural engineer.. before the damages get worse.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EllieD on 09/28/2011 8:42 AM
BonnieG1,

I believe you are interpreting correctly.

When referring to LIMITED Common there is often confusion between what is meant by “Owner maintenance” vs “Association maintenance” even when the word “routine” does not precede maintenance.

Typically owner maintenance of Limited Common Areas means – keep clean, sweep, do not damage - that sort of thing.

While Association maintenance means – keep in good shape, to repair, to paint, to replace, to re-build.

In a sense you are lucky because your Document has the word “routine” in front of maintenance, which helps to clarify the meaning of Owner maintenance.

Also, you said that the ground is settling, causing water to seep in around the base of the building.

Has the Association hired anyone investigate to find out if there might be a drainage problem, and to advise how best to correct?

We are in the process of either repairing or completely replacing our gutters. We think some of the problem is caused by our gutters that have been damaged in some areas.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 09/28/2011 9:06 AM
Bonnie and Ellie, you are correct.. it is not a maintenance issue it may be a construction issue and this is why I suggested to consult a structural engineer.. before the damages get worse.

Thank you. I may mention a strutural engineer to other Board members, but I don't think the idea will be well received. Sometimes I just want to raise my hands and scream in frustration.
Our President at times appears to be making decisions by what will upset or not upset people.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

BonnieG1,

OK on doing gutter work.

But before hiring an “Engineer” which I believe would entail a “consulting fee” – why not locate a couple of Local Contractors who do “ground work”, digging, drainage work, install drain tiles, etc. and ask them to visit your property to see what is going on.

Then ask that they Quote/Propose a solution to your water problem.

Most contractors will probably not charge for a Quote/Proposal. That way you could get a couple of opinions – maybe the same – maybe different.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Thanks for all your advise. I think I convinced the other members of the Board that the Association is responsible for this. Our President's response was just to ask what the meaning of routine is.

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