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JudyZ (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Is is mandatory to use a double envelope voting procedure? It is hard to believe but it is time to begin work on the annual meeting. Is it necessary to include an envelope for the return of the proxy to the Association. This seems like such a waste.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JudyZ on 09/17/2011 7:17 PM
Is is mandatory to use a double envelope voting procedure? It is hard to believe but it is time to begin work on the annual meeting. Is it necessary to include an envelope for the return of the proxy to the Association. This seems like such a waste.

Are you referring to a proxy or to an absentee ballot?

A proxy is not a ballot. It is an authorization for someone to vote (cast a ballot) for another person who is entitled to vote so that it is unnecessary for the issuer of the proxy to attend the meeting where the voting is to take place. A person may be unable to attend a meeting and therefore will authorize another to be a "proxy" and vote in his/her place. A proxy can be either undirected or directed (the proxy in instructed on how to vote). Because a proxy may or may not contain instructions on how to vote, and must be signed, (it is not secret) a single envelope may be used if the proxy is to be mailed.

However, with an absentee ballot, the situation is different.To insure each ballot can be verified (from an individual entitled to vote and only one vote per individual) and to insure the secrecy of the ballot, two envelopes must be used. Here's the procedure:

The voter places the completed ballot in the inner envelope, the outside of which is blank. This envelope is then placed in an outer envelope, the outside of which, usually, contains the signature of the voter across the seal of the envelope. The person responsible for tallying the absentee ballots first takes an envelope and checks the name on the outer envelope against the list of eligible voters and marks that person as having cast a ballot, thus verifying that the person is eligible to vote and has not previously cast a ballot. The outer envelope is then opened and discarded and the inner envelope is placed in a receptacle for verified ballots. After all of the (outer) envelopes have been opened, all the inner envelopes (which have been mixed) are opened and the ballots are removed and tallied. This insures that each vote is verified and remains secret. If only one envelope is used a person could open the envelope and look at the ballot and see how the person voted, thus violating secrecy. If the single envelope is left blank to preserve secrecy, there is no way to verify that the person sending the ballot is entitled to vote or has not sent in more ballots than he/she is entitled to cast.
JudyZ (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Bruce: Thanks for your reply. I am speaking of the proxy you include in the info packet mailed to each homeowner. It is up to one of the homeowners to complete and return the Proxy if they wish to vote for Directors or any other items on the Ballot, and they are unable to attend the meeting. If the homeowner plans to attend the meeting they do not complete the proxy, buy rather vote by Ballot at the meeting. So, since the authorized homeowner is appointing usually the Secretary of the association to vote his signed Proxy we do not have to use the "secret ballot" envelope. This is the way we have always done it.....just wanted to be sure.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Judy,

Both of my Florida associations use the double envelope system for elections. This is a safety precaution to insure the integrity of ballots cast for those who do not attend the annual election meeting. It may seem like an extra expense that we all are trying to avoid but it is worth the expense to keep the elections as secure as possible.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 09/18/2011 8:33 AM

Judy,

Both of my Florida associations use the double envelope system for elections. This is a safety precaution to insure the integrity of ballots cast for those who do not attend the annual election meeting. It may seem like an extra expense that we all are trying to avoid but it is worth the expense to keep the elections as secure as possible.

Donna, are you referring to a proxy (sending a proxy authorization form to a homeowner) or an absentee ballot (with actual individuals' names and issues to be voted on)?

A proxy is not secret (it must be signed) so I see no need for a double envelope. An absentee ballot should be kept secret and so would require a double envelope. The two are not the same and do not require the same treatment.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
In fact you should never put a proxy in the sealed envelope along with your ballot. Known to happen.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/18/2011 8:58 AM
In fact you should never put a proxy in the sealed envelope along with your ballot. Known to happen.

Why would one send both a ballot and a proxy?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
'Why would one send both a ballot and a proxy?'

Bruce,

Our annual meetings are not limited to election of directors. We vote on other issues (new business); in addition we cannot vote by absentee ballots on any other issues such as amending docs, betterments, etc.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bruce,

I am referring to the election ballot. Both of my associations do not allow proxy voting. The 55+ community is so proactive that they have a special meeting and have a telephone chain that they call to remind people to send in their ballots if they do not plan on attending in person. The 230 member community always has near the 230 numbers for election and amendment voting. The reason for the election voting to go out with the double (stamped) envelopes is to try and get everyone to vote. As I said, it certainly does work.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/18/2011 9:23 AM
'Why would one send both a ballot and a proxy?'

Bruce,

Our annual meetings are not limited to election of directors. We vote on other issues (new business); in addition we cannot vote by absentee ballots on any other issues such as amending docs, betterments, etc.

Ah. So I think I get it.

A person completes the absentee ballot for choice of directors and places it in the inner envelope. then places that envelope in the outer envelope along with the signed proxy authorizing someone to vote on the other issues. Does a person have to include a proxy in the outer envelope, or can that person just include the inner envelope containing the absentee ballot?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 09/18/2011 9:33 AM

Bruce,

I am referring to the election ballot. Both of my associations do not allow proxy voting. The 55+ community is so proactive that they have a special meeting and have a telephone chain that they call to remind people to send in their ballots if they do not plan on attending in person. The 230 member community always has near the 230 numbers for election and amendment voting. The reason for the election voting to go out with the double (stamped) envelopes is to try and get everyone to vote. As I said, it certainly does work.

Since you are using absentee ballots and not proxies the double envelope is what I would want to see used.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Does a person have to include a proxy in the outer envelope, or can that person just include the inner envelope containing the absentee ballot?
(Bruce)

Bruce,

A person does not have to include a proxy. A person can mail or hand a proxy to anyone or choose not to issue a proxy at all and just vote for directors.

PS: BTW, I had a chance to ask an attorney if a deliquent owner can hold proxies and the answer was 'Absolutely YES'.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/18/2011 10:04 AM
PS: BTW, I had a chance to ask an attorney if a deliquent owner can hold proxies and the answer was 'Absolutely YES'.

Which is what I believe many of us (including myself) said on another thread.

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