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Continued animosity

Started by KarenT • 16 replies • 2013 views

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KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
There seems to always be one or two in every HOA :-}

We have one homeowner who was a renter approximately 2 years before purchasing the home. She knew full well there was a HOA as it is 12 single family homes in a cul-de-sac on zero lot lines very close to each other. The HOA was discussed many times in a front yard or at a function and she never once asked to review any of the Association documents before purchasing.

After purchasing the home, the President at the time mentioned in passing, that the dues would have to be increased (due to delinquencies) and this homeowners rather sarcastic remark was "well if I'd know my dues were going to increase, I'd never have bought in here." Then she became an "expert" after reading a HOA book and continually sends out condesending and downright nasty e-mails to all the residents via e-mail about the Board as well complaining in person to everyone but the Board.

The Board has tried very had to ignore her, but recently when the Board made the decision to cut costs and terminate the services of the property management company, more problems came up. After notifing the management company the HOA was terminating their services (they agreed to an early termination) and all the homeowners were notified in writing and via a "formal" meeting (which only 3 attended.

This homeowner apparently promptly got on the phone to the mgmt company and possibly other homeowners about the termination instead of discussing it with the Board. The President learned this later by talking to the mgmt company and another homeowner who spoke to the mgmt company. When the President called the mgmt company to pick up records and funds the mgmt company said many things to the President that were not pleasant, stating they were sending out a letter. The jest of the letter from the mgmt company sent to all homeowners was that the mgmt company was "concerned with the decisions curently being made by the Board" that they would not turn over the funds and records but suggested a meeting with all homeowners before handing over the funds and records. That letter was forward to the HOA attorney who then snet a letter to the mgmt company indicating they were in breach of their contract. Subsquently all the funds and records were turned over to the HOA.

However, once again this homeowner is sending out e-mails disputing the Boards authority to send out notices and collect funds (we have hired a bookkeeper) now that the mgmt company has been terminated. We know we can't control her sending out e-mails, but does anyone have any suggestions to try to get her to stop? One of our homeowners has tried several times to talk to her and have her sit down with the Board but she is adamant that she will not because "she has done nothing wrong".
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Karen,

you have only 12 homes in your community. The owners could stop her by politely replying ‘no more e-mails’ please.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/17/2011 7:51 AM
Karen,

you have only 12 homes in your community. The owners could stop her by politely replying ‘no more e-mails’ please.

That has already been tried at least 3 times.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
When people send me too many junk emails they either end up on my "blocked sender's" list and their emails automatically get deleted, or their emails get routed automatically to a dedicated folder that I can quickly scan periodically and manually delete all the messages received from that person at one time.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Karen

You can't control how she acts but you can control how the board and other homeowners react to her. I would simply tell her that her concerns and questions will be addressed and heard but only if they are done in a respectfull tone. She has every right to be upset or angry but she does not have the right to be mean to people. Everytime she brings up a concern challenge her to be on the board and solve the problem. Challenge her to attend meetings and challenge her that everytime she brings a problem she needs to bring a solution.

Bullies don't like to be called out, so if she is going to bully and complain simply respond to her "what is your solution?" put the ball back in her court.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How did she get everyone's email addresses in the first place? That is an option up to the INDIVIDUAL not the BOD/HOA to hand out. That is actually discussed in another post here that is active. Should read that.

We had a policy that IF you wanted to discuss HOA business it had to be done at the open meeting ONLY. I would instate something like that to encourage people to attend meetings and to knock off the stuff behind closed doors. Plus I would make sure it is known that ONLY board members are allowed to conduct HOA business. The contractors including the Management company should know thier POC's in the HOA that have any kind of authority is the BOD members. Talking to a general member is okay but they have to direct them to the BOARD first and always. The management company is to do what the BOARD tells them to do after a vote not a member.

I think establishing some lines is the answer here. I'd suggest also blocking her email address or seeing if anyone would like to change theirs. I always use a free account from yahoo, google, or hotmail to get emails from certain places. It helps protect against spam. The residents who don't want to get her email but the HOA should consider a separate email address only they will have.

Draw some lines and get things a bit more proffessional, and you should do better.
Former HOA President
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 09/17/2011 8:25 AM
Karen

You can't control how she acts but you can control how the board and other homeowners react to her. I would simply tell her that her concerns and questions will be addressed and heard but only if they are done in a respectfull tone. She has every right to be upset or angry but she does not have the right to be mean to people. Everytime she brings up a concern challenge her to be on the board and solve the problem. Challenge her to attend meetings and challenge her that everytime she brings a problem she needs to bring a solution.

Bullies don't like to be called out, so if she is going to bully and complain simply respond to her "what is your solution?" put the ball back in her court.

Brad,

We did ask her to be on the Board and she lasted one month - because she said she didn't have a voice and kept saying the Board should not be the ones to make the decisions that the entire membership should vote on every issue. Once she was informed that's not how it worked, that the CCR's and by-laws give the authority to the BOD to transact the HOA business, she then started this long and continually campaign against the BOD.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
She will run out of steam shortly, after there are no more issues.

Your board has an authority problem. It sounds like not enough communication was sent to homeowners and you had a management company that listened to residents instead of the board. The rumors and accusatins and gossip
Be sure to get out a summary of the acts of the board and how the "new" system will benefit the homeowners.

With 12 members, this should be easy.

And EVERYONE stop using email. Sounds like a bunch of 13 year old girls.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/17/2011 9:33 AM
How did she get everyone's email addresses in the first place? That is an option up to the INDIVIDUAL not the BOD/HOA to hand out. That is actually discussed in another post here that is active. Should read that.

We had a policy that IF you wanted to discuss HOA business it had to be done at the open meeting ONLY. I would instate something like that to encourage people to attend meetings and to knock off the stuff behind closed doors. Plus I would make sure it is known that ONLY board members are allowed to conduct HOA business. The contractors including the Management company should know thier POC's in the HOA that have any kind of authority is the BOD members. Talking to a general member is okay but they have to direct them to the BOARD first and always. The management company is to do what the BOARD tells them to do after a vote not a member.

I think establishing some lines is the answer here. I'd suggest also blocking her email address or seeing if anyone would like to change theirs. I always use a free account from yahoo, google, or hotmail to get emails from certain places. It helps protect against spam. The residents who don't want to get her email but the HOA should consider a separate email address only they will have.

Draw some lines and get things a bit more proffessional, and you should do better.

Melissa,

The e-mails were given out freely by the members because we thought it would be a better way to communicate especially since we have a lot of winter months. We also have a HOA e-mail which we used but all it became was a way for them to voice their opinions and not come to the BOD meetings. At the advice of our HOA attorney, that e-mail has been discountinued in conjunction with the removal of the mgmt company. This homeowner and others used the mgmt company to continually circumvent the BOD and complain, that's why the mgmt company was terminated for breach of contract.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 09/17/2011 9:54 AM
She will run out of steam shortly, after there are no more issues.

Your board has an authority problem. It sounds like not enough communication was sent to homeowners and you had a management company that listened to residents instead of the board. The rumors and accusatins and gossip
Be sure to get out a summary of the acts of the board and how the "new" system will benefit the homeowners.

With 12 members, this should be easy.

And EVERYONE stop using email. Sounds like a bunch of 13 year old girls.


Oh, you hit the nail on the head "sounds like a bunch of 13 year old girls." We had that exact same conversation with the HOA attorney.

There was plenty of communication, they just want to complain but do none of the work to cut costs, collect on 4 delinquencies - three of which are in foreclosure. So it basically boils down to the fact that their dues have increased - 8 are paying for 12. The President recently collected $5,100+ in past due dues, late fees interest, fines and attorney fees for the most serious delinquency and only 3 homeowners even acknowledged her efforts.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
However, once again this homeowner is sending out e-mails disputing the Boards authority to send out notices and collect funds (we have hired a bookkeeper) now that the mgmt company has been terminated. (Karen)

Karen, could you or would you post one example of her e-mail challenging the Board's authority?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Forget acknowledgement when your on your board or an officer. They do say that being on your BOARD or an officer is a "thankless" job. However, I always "ThankFULL" to have it...This is normal behavior when you have a group of people who have to make decisions amongst themselves and no one has the specialized skillset/experience/education to do the job. (No offense but no one does.)

Your always going to have someone chattering about everything and everyone. My suggestion is to acknowledge that and don't always ignore it. Just redirect that energy another way. Maybe there are changes that need to be done and lines to be drawn. Now that you have the new bookkeeper, make sure they realize their job isn't to listen to the people calling in accept the BOARD. Any issues, need to go to the board and that is NOT their area. You have to keep pushing this person to the right avenues. That is why your PM failed.

I'd send out a letter to everyone stating that if you have issues direct them to the BOARD ONLY. That can be done by a setup email, comments box, or at the scheduled meeting. Members should still have a way to write letters to the Board. The board then can discuss it at the meetings. Just make sure the members understand they write a letter to the board it isn't PRIVATE. It has to be discussed amongst the board members and those board members discuss business at their OPEN meetings. Unless it's legal in nature and is covered under client/attorney privilege, everything someone writes to the board should be open.

This may cut down on the letter writing and increase people to attend meetings...Why write a letter if everyone can hear it and then have no say so on how the results end up if you don't attend? Change the lines and redirect to those lines..
Former HOA President
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/17/2011 10:24 AM
Forget acknowledgement when your on your board or an officer. They do say that being on your BOARD or an officer is a "thankless" job. However, I always "ThankFULL" to have it...This is normal behavior when you have a group of people who have to make decisions amongst themselves and no one has the specialized skillset/experience/education to do the job. (No offense but no one does.)

Your always going to have someone chattering about everything and everyone. My suggestion is to acknowledge that and don't always ignore it. Just redirect that energy another way. Maybe there are changes that need to be done and lines to be drawn. Now that you have the new bookkeeper, make sure they realize their job isn't to listen to the people calling in accept the BOARD. Any issues, need to go to the board and that is NOT their area. You have to keep pushing this person to the right avenues. That is why your PM failed.

I'd send out a letter to everyone stating that if you have issues direct them to the BOARD ONLY. That can be done by a setup email, comments box, or at the scheduled meeting. Members should still have a way to write letters to the Board. The board then can discuss it at the meetings. Just make sure the members understand they write a letter to the board it isn't PRIVATE. It has to be discussed amongst the board members and those board members discuss business at their OPEN meetings. Unless it's legal in nature and is covered under client/attorney privilege, everything someone writes to the board should be open.

This may cut down on the letter writing and increase people to attend meetings...Why write a letter if everyone can hear it and then have no say so on how the results end up if you don't attend? Change the lines and redirect to those lines..

Mellissa,

The BOD did communicate this to the members in writing at the meeting (that only 3 actually attended) and sent that same written notice to the ones who did not attend. It stated that the new bookkeeping company was just that "a bookkeeping company" and not a PM. The notice indicated the e-mail would no longer be utilized and that all correspondence to the HOA from members had to be in writing to the BOD.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Just an FYI - the President has worked in real estate for 35 years, 28 of that managing commercial, residential, farm, timberland, platted subdivisions, etc... The Secretary/Treasurer has 10+ years of experience with the county right of way department. So they have a little more knowledged then the normal homeowner who may be on the BOD.

This homeowner causing the issues has never lived in or owned a home in a HOA and after one month reading the HOA book and RCW (laws of Washington State) was interpreting them vir beatum.
FionaC (California)
Posts: 212
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 09/17/2011 6:57 AM
There seems to always be one or two in every HOA :-}

We have one homeowner who was a renter approximately 2 years before purchasing the home. She knew full well there was a HOA as it is 12 single family homes in a cul-de-sac on zero lot lines very close to each other. The HOA was discussed many times in a front yard or at a function and she never once asked to review any of the Association documents before purchasing.

After purchasing the home, the President at the time mentioned in passing, that the dues would have to be increased (due to delinquencies) and this homeowners rather sarcastic remark was "well if I'd know my dues were going to increase, I'd never have bought in here." Then she became an "expert" after reading a HOA book and continually sends out condesending and downright nasty e-mails to all the residents via e-mail about the Board as well complaining in person to everyone but the Board.

The Board has tried very had to ignore her, but recently when the Board made the decision to cut costs and terminate the services of the property management company, more problems came up. After notifing the management company the HOA was terminating their services (they agreed to an early termination) and all the homeowners were notified in writing and via a "formal" meeting (which only 3 attended.

This homeowner apparently promptly got on the phone to the mgmt company and possibly other homeowners about the termination instead of discussing it with the Board. The President learned this later by talking to the mgmt company and another homeowner who spoke to the mgmt company. When the President called the mgmt company to pick up records and funds the mgmt company said many things to the President that were not pleasant, stating they were sending out a letter. The jest of the letter from the mgmt company sent to all homeowners was that the mgmt company was "concerned with the decisions curently being made by the Board" that they would not turn over the funds and records but suggested a meeting with all homeowners before handing over the funds and records. That letter was forward to the HOA attorney who then snet a letter to the mgmt company indicating they were in breach of their contract. Subsquently all the funds and records were turned over to the HOA.

However, once again this homeowner is sending out e-mails disputing the Boards authority to send out notices and collect funds (we have hired a bookkeeper) now that the mgmt company has been terminated. We know we can't control her sending out e-mails, but does anyone have any suggestions to try to get her to stop? One of our homeowners has tried several times to talk to her and have her sit down with the Board but she is adamant that she will not because "she has done nothing wrong".

You have a loose cannon here. I'd do this. Instead of doing emails back and forth, call her on it and ask her to come to a Executive Session so she can face to face speak to the source of her issues?? Her concerns may or may not be valid, But her ability to undermine a small community is very real. She can spread emails as much as she wishes, but make sure she is aware of one thing... Emails are admissible in court. Slander, is illegal and anything she puts online can be pulled against her. If what she is saying is untrue.

Put her on notice.. and try a nice route getting there.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Fiona,

That's a good idea except I wouldn't have it be in executive session. This is something that needs to be aired in the open so everyone sees what is happening.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 09/17/2011 9:52 AM

We did ask her to be on the Board and she lasted one month - because she said she didn't have a voice and kept saying the Board should not be the ones to make the decisions that the entire membership should vote on every issue. Once she was informed that's not how it worked, that the CCR's and by-laws give the authority to the BOD to transact the HOA business, she then started this long and continually campaign against the BOD.

We had a similar situation with a group of dissidents who wanted to break away and form their own association. Our board floated an amendment to dissolve the association, it went down in flaming defeat, and the dissidents shut up once they found they had no support.

Your BOD should propose an amendment to give this person just what she wants. Something like: "No action shall be taken until all members have voted at regular or special meetings. As a quorum must be established for each and every vote, each and every member hereby agrees to attend each and every meeting without exception."

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