HOA Roof Maintenance Responsibilty

I recently asked my HOA if they would pay for an inspection of my townhouse roof after a heavy hail storm as the covenant states they are responsible for the maintenance, repair, and replaced of roofs as a Common Area.

They have replied:

"We all agreed that "hail damage" is definitely an insurance matter. Since all townhome owners have their own individual insurance policies, it is up to each owner to contact their insurance company themselves if they choose to file a claim. They should ask the insurance company to inspect their roof and decide if they have damage and whether the insurance company will pay for a new roof. Each owner would then be responsible for their own deductible and for finding someone to do the work. We, the Townhome Asso, are responsible for maintenance of roofs, not damage covered by insurance."

Is this true or just their way of avoiding their contractual obligations stated in the Covenant? Also should I pursue this with my state’s Attorney General's Consumer Complaint office?

RonC6,

You said you are a Townhome Association – In Indiana is that the same as a Condominium Association or not?

What do your documents state about “who” owns the roofs?

Would you be willing to post the exact wording of the sections of your covenant that you said states “they are responsible for the maintenance, repair, and replaced of roofs as a Common Area.”

Also what does your personal Homeowners Insurance Policy cover - in general terms?

Donna,

That is interesting to know. As you can expect, I haven't seen something like that before. Goes back to something all of us have said multiple threads "what do the governing documents say?"

Ron...if that is all their is then i would say the HOA is responsible...dig a little deeper though to be sure

The HOA told me that they are meeting the legal requirement to have a master insurance by saying that they are covered by the policy of the greater POA of which they are a part. I have requested from the POA the name of the insurer and the terms of the coverage. Their initial response was to question WHY I wanted the information. I replied that I was puzzled by their reaction as I have a condo in FL and both the policy and the insuring agency are available to all owners via our website or at the BOD office. I also stated that the FL insurance agency has an agent attend association meetings periodically to address questions or concerns. I said that I wanted to be as fully informed here as I am there. BTW, I contacted a State agency and the contact told me that they do not have to provide my this information under law. So I am on my own in trying to extract this information.

If you want to get technical water caused the roof to leak! ...to me sounds like he is either not reading enough of the docs or they are poorly written to provide a gray area

I am not finding refs to hazard or storm. Here is the applicable insurance section:
B. COVERAGE: The Board shall be required to obtain and
maintain, to the extent obtainable, the following insurance:
1. Casualty insurance for Common Areas against loss or damage
from fire or other hazards covered by a standard extended
coverage endorsement and such other risks as from time to time
shall be customarily covered with respect to buildings or
improvements of a similar nature, including vandalism,
malicious mischief, flood, windstorm and water damage.
Said Casualty insurance shall insure all buildings and other
improvements upon the Common Areas and all personal property
as may be owned by the Association. The above described
property shall be insured for th~ full insurable replacement
value of such property.
All policies of physical damage insurance shall contain
waivers of subrogation and waivers of any reduction of prorata
liability of the iniuror as a result of any insurance carried
by Unit Owners or of invalidity arising from any acts of the
insured or any Unit Owners, and provide that such policies may
not be cancelled or sUbstantially modified without at least
thirty (30) days prior written notice to all of the insured,
including all mortgagees of Units.
All policies of physical damage shall provide for the issuance
of certificates of insurance mortgage endorsements to the
holders of the first mortgage on the Units.

Ron,

The language is a bit confusing. Can you tell us what word o~ was (I'm expecting it to read "or")?

I'm reading it as the homeowner is responsible for the following:
all utilities located within a building (unless it's a common area building like a clubhouse)
plaster or dry wall
the interior walls and ceilings
floor surfaces
Window glass
Window frames
Doors

The Association is responsible for:
those portions of each Unit which contribute to the support of the Buildings
pipes,
conduits
ducts
plumbing
wiring
other facilities of utility services which may be located within the Unit

The language makes it unclear but it sounds like the owner is also responsible for:
roofing
building exteriors
siding
outside walls
structural slabs
walls of the building
walls of the Units
load bearing walls
that part of the wall between each Unit (common walls shared by each unit)

Note: I'm not sure whats left that supports the building the Board is responsible for after removing all the exclusions.

The reason why I said it sounds unclear is that the roofing,etc is part of a run on sentence right after the word Exclusions.

BTW, I contacted a State agency and the contact told me that they do not have to provide my this information under law. So I am on my own in trying to extract this information. (Ron)
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Ron,
I am confused. What information? You should have every right to review insurance policies for your association You may not have the right to talk to the insurance agent directly about the Association policy. Not even in Florida.

Please know, that insurance policies for townhouse developments can be bloody complicated and they vary from state to state and within each HOA.
The BOD of your condo unit has invited an insurance agent to speak and that is fine. And, you can ask the BOD to do the same for your townhouse community. They may comply or they may not.

Ron,

This is why the language is confusing. The run on sentence could mean the Association is responsible or that the owner is responsible.

You might need to take your documents to an attorney and pay for a legal opinion of the writing ($100-$300 probably). If you decide to do this, provide all your governing documents and ask the simple question - who is responsible for the replacing the roof?

Another option -

Contact your insurance company and tell them you are not sure who is responsible and see if they will give you an opinion. Based on your Boards letter, you can still have your insurance company complete the claim and let them battle it out with the Association.

Tim

Ron,

That's a good point. That action demonstrates that the board took responsibility for the roofs.

However, since it was a construction issue, this leads to the question - is your Association under homeowner control or developer control?

This same HOA did pay to replace several roofs on another street that were compromised due to shoddy builder construction. So they will pay for roof replacement when they want to. I recall one person I spoke with agonize about ALL the money they had to spend on roofs this year. I guess they don't feel like making more pie this year. (Ron)

Of course, this is their responsibility and this is what I said. The question here is if they are responsible for fixing the roof if damaged by wind or hail. Are they insured for such damages or are you? The BOD says they are not responsible for damages caused by wind or hail. You are. Well, good luck.

PetunkaM, as I said, I have not been able to get access to whatever insurance docs the POA has.

TimB4,

Paragraph 1. The Board, as a Common Expense, shall be responsible for the maintenance, repair and replacement of those portions of each Unit which contribute to the support of the Buildings, excluding, however, all utilities located within a building (other than a building on a common area), plaster or dry wall o~ the interior walls and ceilings, and floor surfaces, and including but not limited to, roofing, building exteriors, siding, outside walls, structural slabs, walls of the building, walls of the Units, load bearing walls and that part of the wall between each Unit excepting plaster or dry wall.
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Read this paragraph again - leaving out the words “excluding, however, all utilities located within a building (other than a building on a common area),
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To me it seems clear that the Association is responsible for the maintenance, repair and replacement of roofing.

PetunkaM, yes I am insured and my insurance company would inspect the roof if I file a claim. However, if the inspection finds no hail damage and need to replace the roof, the claim stays on file. So I can get dinged for nothing. Another part of the issue is that I have a common wall with another townhouse. Uh, I would need to have them take the same action with their insurer as it would not be possible to replace half a roof if required.

Additionally, at the very minimum, I think I have a contract between the association and me. I have paid them and they have accepted payment for services they agreed to provide for in the contract, which is the governing documents. And within those documents, they, as well as I, have contractual obligations. Why should I fold and agree to incur expenses for repairs they are obligated to perform just because they don't feel like doing any more roofs.

PetunkaM, good point. This whole experience has made me appreciate the BOD I have in FL (on the Sun Coast). They really have their fecal matter aggregated. The HOA in IN reminds me of an old joke by the former comedian Woody Allen in which he stated he once dated a girl so dumb she thought a
paramecium was two meciums. You are good neighbors, folks. To all that took time to reply to me, thank you beaucoup and merci very much. Ron

Ellie,

I have read it again. I still believe that the run on sentence makes it difficult to tell. If we just thought the exclusion included the section you said to take out, "excluding, however, all utilities located within a building (other than a building on a common area)", that would indicate that the Association is responsible for the plaster or drywall of the interior walls, ceilings, floor surfaces, etc. I think it is unlikely that any Association is going to claim responsibility of the interior of the units.

However, since the Association took responsibility of roofs in the past, their actions aided the interpretation of that section and I would say that the Association is responsible for the roofs.

To me it seems clear that the Association is responsible for the maintenance, repair and replacement of roofing. (Ellie)

Ellie,

No one argues that. BUT one must distinguish between the Association maintenance responsibilities and insurance coverages. Yes, the Association is responsible for routine maintenance and replacement of roofs. But, THIS Association does not carry insurance on the townhouse buildings. They probably cannot because Indiana law may not permit it (Florida does). THIS Association insures only common property.

Consequently, IF the roof is blown away by wind, or destroyed by hail it is the owner’s responsibility to file a claim with his insurance company, pay the deductible and fix the roof. The Association cannot fund such repairs/replacements.

IF the owner can prove the damage was NOT caused by hail or wind the Association will repair the roof. Here is the tricky part. The OP has asked the BOD to inspect the roof for hail damage. That was a mistake because now the Association can say and in fact does say ‘sorry, that is your problem not ours'.

PS: My opinion is based on the letter by the BOD and the insurance provision posted by OP. And, this is why I suggested to obtain a certification to state 'no hail damage' in order to protect himself. Otherwise he may be responsible for repair/replacement.

Or it might read something like: If walls, floors, or ceilings are designated as boundaries of a unit, all lath, furring, wallboard, plasterboard, plaster, paneling, tiles, wallpaper, paint, finished flooring, and any other materials constituting any part of the finished surfaces thereof are a part of the unit, AND ALL OTHER PORTIONS OF THE WALLS, FLOORS, OR CEILINGS ARE PART OF THE COMMON ELEMENTS.

It may also go on to state that the Unit DOES NOT INCLUDE (in Ron’s case) - roofing, building exteriors, siding, outside walls, structural slabs, walls of the building, walls of the Units, load bearing walls and that part of the wall between each Unit excepting plaster or dry wall. (Ellie)
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Unfortunately, none of this would apply if the unit (lot) is owned fee-simple.

PetunkaM,

Perhaps I missed it –but Ron did not tell us what his Policy covers. I would think that Ron’s policy should “mesh” with the Master Association Policy.

That is, his personal policy would only cover “his Unit and any betterments”, and the Master Policy would cover everything that is Common, not part of the Unit.

What is being missed? Either his personal Policy covers the roofs, or it does not.

Also the Indiana Statutes should be checked to see what they say about Insurance Coverage - to see if there are words to the effect that - the common elements must always be insured by the Association and the cost of such insurance is a common expense.

Ellie,

You may be assuming that the townhouse is a condominium which is not the case. That could be the core of our misunderstanding.

A townhouse, if owned fee-simple, is a house and that includes the ground under the building, his portion of the roof and even some air space above the roof;, perhaps a patio lot also. The only difference between the house and the townhouse is that you share common wall with your neighbor(s).

I asked Ron to post what his covenants in order to determine who is responsible for insuring the townhouse buildings. Ron’s covenants state say, the Assn is responsible only for insuring common property . The BOD said and Ron confirmed that he is responsible for insuring the townhouse building, which means (99%) he owns the building fee-simple; otherwise he could not carry the building insurance. The Association cannot insure just the roof if it does not own it.

No, Ron did not say what his policy covers. And yes, his policy should mesh with the Master association policy. The problem here is, the insurance agents also make mistakes and insure the townhouses as condominiums unless you tell them you own the building. This is a huge problem. Ron should definitely talk to his insurance agent and/or review his insurance policy although there is no indication his policy is written incorrectly, not yet anyway. Insuring townhouses is very tricky and poorly understood.

I expect Ron did not realize that he is responsible for replacing the roof if damaged by wind or hail.

PetunkaM,

Whether or not a Condominium, is the very first question I asked. Ron did not answer that.

But the paragraph that Ron posted from his Documents - which describes “what is the Unit” and “what is Common Association responsibility” - reads as a typical section from a Condominium Declaration.

Also the applicable section on Insurance that Ron posted from his Documents reads that way - typical of Condominium Declarations that I am familiar with.

Going back the original question that Ron asked – who is responsible for roof repair?

Many of the opinions posted were, that the roof of Ron’s Townhouse is Association responsibility to maintain and repair, based on the paragraphs posted from his documents.

IMO, whether or not there is insurance coverage is sort of a side issue, except as it might help clarify “who is responsible” for roof repair.

PetunkaM,

I agree, insurance “coverage” is not a side issue. Master Policy coverage is not a side issue. My choice of words “who is responsible” and “side issue” as I used them, were not the best.

I was referring to the “interpretation” of Ron’s Documents, how Roofs were defined - as Common or not, and being Association responsibility to repair, based upon words in his Documents - not based upon how an Insurance Policy is written, although Policy words should confirm.

As I interpret, and based on what has been posted, it is Association responsibility to repair Ron’s roof regardless of where the money comes from, the Association funds, or an Insurance Reimbursement under the Master Policy.

I would be interested in an explanation, basis, for the words that the Board wrote to Ron in response to his question, and also if his personal policy is an HO-6 Policy or not.

As I interpret, and based on what has been posted, it is Association responsibility to repair Ron’s roof regardless of where the money comes from, the Association funds, or an Insurance Reimbursement under the Master Policy.

Ellie,

please tell, where did you read the Association Master Policy covers the townhouses? If I have overlooked something, please tell.