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PatG6 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our neighborhood HOA owns a lovely pool and clubhouse hidden by thick trees and underbrush. It is not licensed (by the city) to be used at night. However, between 1 and 3 times per year, under aged drinkers from a few to a party, go there to drink and sometimes commit minor vandalism, at night. Through out the years, various boards have confronted the kids and parents and fined them and restricted (with little success)their use of the common areas. Of course the rules being broken include 1)the HOA's rules, 2)state law, and 3)federal law. I'm attempting to get some answers from our HOA management company's attorney, (as if the answer to this isn't obvious enough,) as some board members want to maintain the status quo to be "neighborly" and continue to handle infractions on their own. Heaven forbid that some of these great kids have to be held accountable for their illegal behavior! It might keep them out of the college of their choice! (Yes, this is a quote from a fellow board member.) I of course as a parent, homeowner and board member, am appalled by this, and am attempting to amend the HOA rules to require board members to notify law enforcement if they become aware or have reasonable suspicion that such a party is in progress or has recently occurred. I believe the best deterrent and liability protection for homeowners is involving local law enforcement. The "other side" thinks security cameras will adequately deter the activity, however, identifying the perps (if even possible) begs the question of how they should be punished, i.e. fines versus police.

My question for you all: Can you cite any case law in which an HOA was held liable under either host law or underage drinking law; for civil or criminal damages stemming from injury or death caused by an underage drinker who consumed alcohol in an HOA's common area? I for one do not want to serve as the first test case, and while the HOA would not have provided or served the alcohol, they might be seen, by a jury, as having fostered a climate of acceptance of underage drinking (aided and abetted) by adopting an unwritten policy of simply "slapping the wrists" of the "perps" and their parents.Thanks in advance for your opinions.
JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97
Posted:
I agree with you that the thing to do is notify local law enforcement. This is a legal issue. Calling the police is something that anyone living in the area could do- it doesn't have to be sanctioned by the board. If I were in the neighborhood, I would call the police.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JenniferM10 on 09/11/2011 1:42 PM
I agree with you that the thing to do is notify local law enforcement. This is a legal issue. Calling the police is something that anyone living in the area could do- it doesn't have to be sanctioned by the board. If I were in the neighborhood, I would call the police.

Not only can anyone call the police, the board cannot lawfully interfere with a police investigation and cannot take any action against a member who calls the police.
PatG6 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks for your replies! There are indeed plenty of neighbors here who would notify the police should they become aware of an underage drinking party in the common area...strangely enough, my problem is with two fellow board members themselves, as leadership in the HOA, not wanting to be required to notify the police. Hence the proposed amendment; to give "teeth" to the stance of this and future boards, and require that board members report illegal activity. The board members in question are "cool" parents...and seem to be trying to impose their personal philosphy that "kids will be (underage drinking) kids" on the rest of the neighborhood. I believe a majority of our neighbors would call the police. But truly, if not on moral grounds, then on legal grounds to protect the HOA as a group, the board should always do the same. These indviduals may not listen to anything but a legal opinion regarding liability, which is why I wondered if there are any instances out there where an HOA has been sued for damages when underage drinking (I guess or any drinking that resulted in death or injury, for that matter,) occurred on HOA property. Thanks again.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
I do not condone underage dringking or any other illegal activity but such a 'rule' requiring a person to report an activity that you suspect is illegal is a waste of time.

How then do you plan to punish a person for not reporting something? You have a mountain of 'burden of proof' to climb to prove something was seen and not reported. Thus still no 'teeth'.

Recording the activty (cameras) to later establish someting occurred and was not reported, or better yet condoned, is a better way to deter and possibly prosecute such activity.
PatG6 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks; I was viewing the rule as supporting the board for reporting the illegal activity, rather than punishing them for not. If a rule were in place, the board would be protected from backlash from parents of underage drinkers who might think the board had the option of choosing not to report the underage drinkers to law enforcement. If a board member did not believe he/she should be required to report illegal activity, that person should not serve on the board, or alternatively, would choose not to report the illegal activity at his or her own legal risk...not that of the HOA. Videographic evidence would still require that a choice be made if there were no rule in place, i.e., do we notify the police or do we talk to the parents.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Pat...if your board is aware of the problem and ignores it to preserve the youth's record then the board has some liability if anything bad were to ever happen. Someone will sing like a canary about how much the board knew.

Passing a rule to make the board report is a waste of time...why not take the role of a concerned citizen and just report illegal activity. You don't need your boards permission.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Make sure there is signage stating that there is no trespassing and really try to secure the area with fencing or other barriers.

After that, anyone there is trespassing, aren't they? In your next newsletter, tell everyone that trespassers are often on the property and the police will be called.

This has gotten very personal, hasn't it? So don't mention who the HOA thinks is on your property - all trespassers will be dealt with by the police. Step back and let the officials handle it.

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