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GordonS (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
My community consists of 255 attached townhomes/villas.
Our present President went door to door last year, asking homeowners to sign their proxy's and voting for him.
These proxies were then submitted to the 2 volunteer homeowners counting the ballots, where he won. He chose to have 2 other names on the ballot. These other 2 people were then made Vice President/Treasurer, and the other Secretary.
Now,four other homeowners, including myself, wish to challenge the incumbent, for a total of 5 board members.Our homeowners by- law reads the board must consist of either 3 or 5 members,
So again I ask...if the current President goes door to door asking homeowners to sign their proxy supporting him and his reigning 2 fellow board members, and then we, his challengers, present ourselves to the same homeowner, (not knowing our present President asked them to sign a proxy supporting him earlier), and the homeowner goes ahead and signs another proxy supporting us,his opponents, are then the 2 votes (from the same homeowner) null and void?
Thanks again!
Gordon
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Gordon I am not up on the laws in your state, but typically in this scenario I would imagine the original document that was signed first is the one that is valid and any proxy form signed after that is invalid. However, proving which one was signed first would be difficult and could get messy. Not sure i can be much help on this one.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would say your mixing your apples and oranges here. It sounds like it's not proxy voting your searching for, but the oportunity to hold a special meeting to discuss nominee changes. A step seems to be missing here. Our HOA we have an election once a year. The board is picked per the amount in the CC&R's. The board positions are then decided amongst the elected board. It's not a general membership decision. Although we also did have people run for certain positions. With so little peope interested in being a board member, they pretty much got the position.

Seems that your trying to recall the board more than to add your names on the ballot. I'd say that next time, whoever wants to run gets their name in at a designated time each year. That way there's less confusion and no need for duplicate proxy voting.

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Gordon if I as a candidate go door to door collecting proxies and you go door to door the next day doing the same thing, the proxy with the most current date is the valid one.

720.306 Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.—

(8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
(a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
So again I ask...if the current President goes door to door asking homeowners to sign their proxy supporting him and his reigning 2 fellow board members, and then we, his challengers, present ourselves to the same homeowner, (not knowing our present President asked them to sign a proxy supporting him earlier), and the homeowner goes ahead and signs another proxy supporting us,his opponents, are then the 2 votes (from the same homeowner) null and void?

Yes, the proxies would be void. The owner cannot sign two proxies (or put two ballots into an envelope) because only one person per unit can vote.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
PS:
Gordon,
However the owner can change his/her mind and revoke one proxy at any time prior to the meeting.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Our HOA is soon due for their annual election of board members.
If the current president goes door to door getting proxy's signed and his opponent does the same, are the proxys then null and void since the resident signed both proxy's? Or is the proxy with the most recent date/signature valid? Cannot get a real answer on this one. [Gordon]

To answer your question from the earlier post.. NO, the proxy with the most recent date would not be valid. If the owner signs two proxies for the same meeting his/hers vote is disqualified. The owner must revoke one proxy.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/11/2011 5:52 AM

To answer your question from the earlier post.. NO, the proxy with the most recent date would not be valid. If the owner signs two proxies for the same meeting his/hers vote is disqualified. The owner must revoke one proxy.

out of curiousity do you have any sources to support that statement?
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/11/2011 5:52 AM

To answer your question from the earlier post.. NO, the proxy with the most recent date would not be valid. If the owner signs two proxies for the same meeting his/hers vote is disqualified. The owner must revoke one proxy.

out of curiousity do you have any sources to support that statement?
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
FL Statute 720.306 (8) I am assuming that this is not a condo association (under 718)
(8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
(a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.
(b) If the governing documents permit voting by secret ballot by members who are not in attendance at a meeting of the members for the election of directors, such ballots must be placed in an inner envelope with no identifying markings and mailed or delivered to the association in an outer envelope bearing identifying information reflecting the name of the member, the lot or parcel for which the vote is being cast, and the signature of the lot or parcel owner casting that ballot. If the eligibility of the member to vote is confirmed and no other ballot has been submitted for that lot or parcel, the inner envelope shall be removed from the outer envelope bearing the identification information, placed with the ballots which were personally cast, and opened when the ballots are counted. If more than one ballot is submitted for a lot or parcel, the ballots for that lot or parcel shall be disqualified. Any vote by ballot received after the closing of the balloting may not be considered.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
out of curiousity do you have any sources to support that statement? (Brad)

Brad,

It is because one cannot determine with any certainty what the intent of the voting owner was. Let’s assume I sign a proxy 30 days before the meeting and give it to the secretary of the Association. And I forget I did that (known to happen in Florida). Or, I change my mind and give another Proxy to Mr. X two days before the meeting. Mr. X could argue that the proxy with the most current date is valid because I did not remember that I gave a proxy to someone else or, that I changed my mind and did not want the secretary to vote for me. The Secretary could argue that she got the proxy first and therefore she has the right to represent me. Who is right?

Another scenario would be an envelope with two ballots; one voting for 5 directors and one for three directors. That vote would be disqualified. Or let's assume you have 5 openings and 8 people are running. And, you check 6 names by error. Also, that vote would be disqualified. People do make mistakes.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/11/2011 8:50 AM
out of curiousity do you have any sources to support that statement? (Brad)

Brad,

It is because one cannot determine with any certainty what the intent of the voting owner was. Let’s assume I sign a proxy 30 days before the meeting and give it to the secretary of the Association. And I forget I did that (known to happen in Florida). Or, I change my mind and give another Proxy to Mr. X two days before the meeting. Mr. X could argue that the proxy with the most current date is valid because I did not remember that I gave a proxy to someone else or, that I changed my mind and did not want the secretary to vote for me. The Secretary could argue that she got the proxy first and therefore she has the right to represent me. Who is right?

Another scenario would be an envelope with two ballots; one voting for 5 directors and one for three directors. That vote would be disqualified. Or let's assume you have 5 openings and 8 people are running. And, you check 6 names by error. Also, that vote would be disqualified. People do make mistakes.


is that your opinion or is there case law to support that? I am just curious as this sounds like a tricky landscape.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
is that your opinion or is there case law to support that? I am just curious as this sounds like a tricky landscape (Brad)

Brad,
I certainly hope you are having fun challenging me. It is not my opinion and there is no case law I know of .I took a seminar on proxy voting where different scenarios were discussed. In general, proxy voting is poorly understood and a subject to many games. Have you noticed a post by Richard? It states:
‘The most recent one should be accepted (if it complies with the proxy restrictions in your Bylaws).’

Well, the OP would not ask the question if the By-laws addressed such restriction. In fact, I do not know of any By-laws in Florida that would address this issue. And, I have read hundreds of them. But it does not mean much. If you want to play that game go ahead. Do I care? No. And the owners would probably have no clue what is right or what is wrong and obviously you do not either.

.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I am actually enjoying watching football tonight, I was simply asking a question as to how you were basing your opinion because I have read different things on here. Wanted to see if it was your opinion or a law, nothing more, nothing less...at least not today.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
and you are right I don't either...i readily admit I am a novice at this, therefore the questions in this case

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