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JamesG9 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
An application for an exterior re-paint was submitted and approved by the ARC in writing in February.

Now the board has sent a denial letter stating the approval is void due to the color not being in harmony, six months after the house has been painted.

The board is requesting that a different color be chosen and re-painted.
They are "willing to share the cost of re-painting of the exterior"

Any advise on how to respond to this?

Thank you,
James G.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
James,

The BOD is going to use the association money to repaint your house? I wonder how they can justify it? Seems they made one mistake and now they are on the way making a second one. How can the approval be void after all is done? Is there something in your docs allowing for that? I guess someone complained and does not like the color you have chosen. I think it is really up to you how you want to handle it. I would probably just repaint if the color causes hard feelings in the neighborhood. But, that is me.
CharlesB17
Posts: 112
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG9 on 09/04/2011 6:51 AM
An application for an exterior re-paint was submitted and approved by the ARC in writing in February.

Now the board has sent a denial letter stating the approval is void due to the color not being in harmony, six months after the house has been painted.

The board is requesting that a different color be chosen and re-painted.
They are "willing to share the cost of re-painting of the exterior"

Any advise on how to respond to this?

Thank you,
James G.


The following statement is solely based up the assumption you paid for the entire repaint back in Febuary.
If the Board is recinding their approval letter six months post painting, I personally would not object to the house being repainted to a color "more Suitable" and acceptable to me ( My wife and I). However, If I incurred the cost the first time after the approval, the Association would have to bear the finacial burden this time.
If they try to argue the fact, I would point out, that I acted in good faith and with a written approval, signed by the board.
If they try to leverage you, and if it were in a court room. I do not believe any Judge would rule against you as you did infact act in good faith and only proceeded after written confirmation was given.
I do not think any attorney would go to court and represent the association in a situation like this.
Make them pay for thr repaint. Contact 3 contractors and submit three bids on the repainting.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
I am a firm believer in whoever makes the mistake should pay for the mistake. Otherwise, there is no incentive to not make mistakes again in the future. If I know someone will always fix my mistakes for me and I can make mistakes with impunity, why should I care whether I ever make mistakes or not?

If the HOA approved the paint color and now wants the color changed, they need to pay for it. Maybe they'll be more careful before they approve a paint color the next time.
JamesG9 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for the response.

I did paint for the entire re-paint in February.

I have no problems with a re-paint if the board is willing to incur the full costs. But From the wording in the letter, the board is willing to "share" the cost, it seems like they want me to pay for the re-paint.

Since the board is denying the request after an approval was given.
Any advise on how to word my response to request that the board pay the full cost of the re-paint would be appreciated.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Was your approval in writing and/or does the denial letter refer to a previous approval?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I am a firm believer in whoever makes the mistake should pay for the mistake. [Bruce]

Bruce, I totally agree. Someone should be responsible for this problem. But, who? Should owners pay for this mistake? Or, should the insurance kick in in this instance?

Let’s assume, Mr. Jones builds a $50K addition to his house and six months later the Board decides they goofed and offers to pay ½ to rebuild it. Now your homeowners pay $25K? What if the association has only 25 houses? That would require $1K assessment per owner.

Would you pay $1K to rebuild that addition?

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/04/2011 8:33 AM
I am a firm believer in whoever makes the mistake should pay for the mistake. [Bruce]

Bruce, I totally agree. Someone should be responsible for this problem. But, who? Should owners pay for this mistake? Or, should the insurance kick in in this instance?

Let’s assume, Mr. Jones builds a $50K addition to his house and six months later the Board decides they goofed and offers to pay ½ to rebuild it. Now your homeowners pay $25K? What if the association has only 25 houses? That would require $1K assessment per owner.

Would you pay $1K to rebuild that addition?


I certainly wouldn't want to pay for that mistake, but, I believe I really don't have a choice.

Will the insurance cover it? Maybe, but it may take a lawsuit. It's a real problem, I know, but here's what I envision as a possible scenario in your example.

1. Insurance won't cover and HOA doesn't want to pay because it would mean a special assessment for everybody.
2. Homeowner sues demanding HOA pay.
3. Now the insurance company has to get involved to defend lawsuit.
4. Assuming judge rules that HOA goofed and must pay, now, because of the judgement the insurance company pays to rebuild the addition AND court costs and legal fees.

Simple answer: Be more careful in the first place.
CharlesB17
Posts: 112
Posted:
"Would you pay $1K to rebuild that addition?" Petunka

That is the American way isn't it. Our government makes mistakes and our citizens foo the bill.
That is the standard example all governments seem to follow, including the HOAs. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is how it is. That is the reasons we vote politicians in and out of office, based upon their performance to manage our needs.

Is it fair. No, but you have to take the good with the bad. In the example you gave, it is bad. In the case of this home getting repainted, it is bad.

Now, to answer the wording. Assuming you have a written and signed approval for. I would respond similar to the manner you wrote here.
To whom it may concern,
I submitted the ARC form to repaint my home in accordance with the _____ Home Owners Association documents. You responded with the form signed and approved.
I received a letter to rescind said approval six months after I completed the painting on my home, at no cost to the association. I do not feel and or can not financially afford to repaint my home in entirety or partially. However, if the board deems my home needs to be repainted to conform, I have no objections to the board funding the re painting of my home with a mutually agreed upon color by me and the board.
Attached is a copy of the original approved form along with 3 well recommended and qualified contractor bids.

Something to that effect would open the dialogue for future discussions.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG9 on 09/04/2011 6:51 AM

The board is requesting that a different color be chosen and re-painted.
They are "willing to share the cost of re-painting of the exterior"

James,

Do you want to change the color?

If you do, insist that the board pay the full amount of the cost of repainting, and that the money be placed in escrow before the work is done.

If you do not, respectfully reply that the approval that you were given is binding, and you do not intend to repaint. Then it is up to the board to take the next step. I think that they will find that their lawyer will advise them to drop the issue, because they would certainly lose is court and likely have to pay both their costs and your costs too.

JamesG9 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/04/2011 8:20 AM
Was your approval in writing and/or does the denial letter refer to a previous approval?

The approval was in writing.
The denial letter does refer to the previous approval, their wording was that having reviewed the "approved exterior house color" "The approved house color was not in harmony with the community color themes".

The form that was sent back with the letter still shows the original approval date, but with "voided by the BOD" next to the original notes.

Quote:
Posted By CharlesB17 on 09/04/2011 8:47 AM

Something to that effect would open the dialogue for future discussions.

Thank you for this Charles, I will incorporate some of this in my response to them.
JamesG9 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 09/04/2011 9:00 AM
Posted By JamesG9 on 09/04/2011 6:51 AM

The board is requesting that a different color be chosen and re-painted.
They are "willing to share the cost of re-painting of the exterior"


James,

Do you want to change the color?

If you do, insist that the board pay the full amount of the cost of repainting, and that the money be placed in escrow before the work is done.

If you do not, respectfully reply that the approval that you were given is binding, and you do not intend to repaint. Then it is up to the board to take the next step. I think that they will find that their lawyer will advise them to drop the issue, because they would certainly lose is court and likely have to pay both their costs and your costs too.


I have no objection to a re-paint if the board pays the full amount.
Also thanks for the idea regarding the escrow request.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I am not saying James should not be compensated but I do question the process and the responsibilities issues.

I realize I swim against the stream here, but I do not believe the BOD has the authority to make deals or, to negotiate with owners to pay for any expenses it is not authorized to cover. This is really not a good thing in any instance. Plus, what if a certified audit is performed and the CPA says ‘no good’? What will happen then? Does anyone know?

Should not the D&O insurance cover ‘incorrect decisions’?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Just goes to show you it's harder to FIX something than to be right from the beginning.

Has this ARC had a listing of all approved colors, with their paint name and color number and where the owner could purchase thhis approved paint, all this would have never happened.

This board is guilty of PUDS - Pointless Up and Down Steps.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Is this color a new color or an existing one on their color scheme? Sometimes they can no longer reproduce colors at the Paint store after a certain amount of time. Which means you may have painted your house the approved "Mountain blue" but that "mountain blue" is no longer the original configuration of the original. Plus each paint manufacturer uses different names for their paints. It's always best your HOA sticks with one paint manufacturer such as "Glidden/Behr/Sherwin Williams". That way if they have to update their color scheme, the company will have it on record.

There's also some colors that come off really bright when first painted. They will fade out and fit the color scheme after some weathering. We had a person who wanted to paint the house "Plum" which is an approved color with a few houses painted that color. However, when he first applied it, the paint looked COMPLETELY different. We verified it was that "Plum" color by every means possible but when applied it came out "Purple". Luckily, the owner decided to just skip that color and try another one. It only cost about 20 dollars to do a few test runs at that point.

Do some research and see if it's the approved colors were from a different manufacture and different mix. Did you just submit the name of the paint or did you show them an example prior to painting? Next time make sure you do an example just to make sure it matches. Plus I would also try to find out on your behalf if these approved colors do indeed exist and that you haven't just gotten a color the manufacturer changed. This would help you and future residents.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/04/2011 9:55 AM

Should not the D&O insurance cover ‘incorrect decisions’?

Two reasons not to file a claim:

1. Insurance never covers a loss caused by an insured's deliberate act and a vote by the BOD is a deliberate act.

2. The insurance carrier will drop the HOA, having been presented with evidence of way too much risk.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/04/2011 9:55 AM
Should not the D&O insurance cover ‘incorrect decisions’?

Most D&O insurance covers the legal costs of defending against a lawsuit, including allegations of "incorrect decisions" and other specified things. Unless someone is suing the board over their erroneous approval of the paint color, D&O insurance wouldn't apply.

I suppose that James could sue if the Board started fining him for a covenant violation, but that doesn't seem likely to happen here.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Insurance never covers a loss caused by an insured's deliberate act and a vote by the BOD is a deliberate act. [Larry]

Larry,

I did not realize was a deliberate act by the Board. I viewed it as ‘an incorrect decision’ by the Architectural committee. Anyway, we are talking a little money here. Perhaps the BOD and ACC should go and buy a few rollers and have a ‘painting party’. Ha.
JamesG9 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/04/2011 10:49 AM
Did you just submit the name of the paint or did you show them an example prior to painting? Next time make sure you do an example just to make sure it matches. Plus I would also try to find out on your behalf if these approved colors do indeed exist and that you haven't just gotten a color the manufacturer changed. This would help you and future residents.

There was no approved color list and a sample sheet for the paint color was obtained at the store and sent with the application.

That sample color was the one I used to purchase the paint and received approval for.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
PS: Larry, I do however consider using unauthorized Association money for repainting the house as a ‘deliberate decision’.

CharlesB17
Posts: 112
Posted:
Bottom line, I would not spend a red copper peeny to re-paint my house. If they want it re-painted, they would foot the bill. Period. The approval, as you describe it, is a legal and binding contract. You did due your dillegiance. If they want to take it to court, then I am sure, their attorney would recommend to leave well enough alone, as I would recommend to them.
Not to say, they may try to give you CC&R violation letters. And if they try to lien on your property, consult FLA Statutes 720, and the rebuttal process is very straight forward. Ultimately, they have to prove that yopu are in violation, which is not going to happen if they use the reasonable and prudent man theory. Which, is what Florida statutes are supposed to be based upon.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 09/04/2011 11:24 AM
Posted By PetunkaM on 09/04/2011 9:55 AM

Should not the D&O insurance cover ‘incorrect decisions’?


1. Insurance never covers a loss caused by an insured's deliberate act and a vote by the BOD is a deliberate act.

After looking at our own D&O policy, I don't quite agree with this statement.

D&O insurance will not cover a loss because of a deliberate act of VIOLATING A LAW which is why it's always wise to seek legal counsel before making some decisions. However, all votes taken by a board can be termed deliberate acts, so by Larry's reasoning, no action by the board would ever be covered by D&O insurance. Then, why carry it?

D&O insurance protects against "errors and omissions" committed by the officers and directors, individually and as an entity. However, it does require that a "written demand for monetary relief" (that is how it is stated in our policy) be made to the association (board). In other words, the board cannot admit wrong-doing or make an offer to repaint the home (D&O insurance also prohibits this). The board would have to require the homeowner to repaint the home and the homeowner would then have to demand (probably through an attorney) that the HOA pay for the repainting. D&O insurance would then likely apply.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
You paid 100% of the original paint job and they are offering to 'share' in the cost of the repaint. Since it doesn't specify a % and you are willing to have a repaint, just advise them that their % share for the repaint is 100% and yours is 0%. If they refuse then it is their choice. You will be viewed as having been even more than reasonable if they take it further and they could open themselves up to punitive damages on top of other costs!
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Did the color you submitted for ARC approval look the same when applied to your house or was it off a bit?

Otherwise, enjoy the new color of your house. It is approved. My thought is the HOA cannot use its dues for the benefit of a single, private individual, such as house painting. Well....it COULD, but any dues payer worth his or her salt should challenge it.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
To me this is pretty simple, you have three ways to word it:

1. The request was submitted and approved by you per our documentation and at this time I have no intention nor am obligated to change the color

2. The request was submitted and approved by you per our documentation and if the association would like to pay the full cost to repaint with a contractor of my choosing I am open to that discussion.

3. The request was submitted and approved by you per our documentation and if the association would like to share the cost to repaint with a contractor of my choosing I am open to that discussion.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me unless there is more to the story.

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