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LoriH6 (Indiana)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thanks for reading. I own what has been marketed since its inception in 1985 as a condo, what I am now told is a townhouse. As the 88 units on the Northwest side of Indianapolis are now getting older, problems are occuring. These problems are structural as well as aethsetic and social. All the roofs and siding need to be replaced. The grounds are in sad shape. Recently, there has been vandalism and destruction in the community which has been proven to be owner on owner induced. Yet our "board" refuses to take appropriate action, and the management company only wants to spend pennies putting bandaids on problems rather than fixing them appropriately for the long haul.

Our developer filed a declaration for this planned community before Indiana had per se condo or homeowners association statutes. Apparently, this inital declaration called the units townhomes.It was notfiled under the old horizontal property act, which became the new condo statute, but it provided for a board of directors that mostly mirrors the current HOA law, but without its bite to fine or assess for infringements on the use and enjoyment of other owners. Since these units were first sold, they have been called, marketed as, and assumed to be condos. We bought condos, not townhomes, and if you look at the real estate listings today, they are still advertised and sold as condos. The problems come in because while the board is called an HOA and they have power to repair, replace, assess, contract, maintain the common areas (pool, lake, etc.), the board attorney (Stephen Buschmann) says that it is not an HOA under the statute and these are not condominiums under the condo statute. The statutes for HOAs and condominiums were enacted later, and while they require the same process to record a declaration, etc., the declaration could not have been filed in 1983 under statutes that were only enacted in 2008 or thereafter. Those statutes offer more powers and protection to owners, but the attorney says that even though all these things are true, our development is not governed by either the HOA or the condo statutes. In effect, we fall outside statutory authority entirely. We are only bound/protected by the initial declarations, bylaws, covenants, etc., which may have been adequate in 1983, but are woefully inadequate to deal with current conditions. There is a provision by which we could vote to be governed by these statutes, but try getting a quorum to vote for anything amidst all this complancency and anger that the board is doing nothing to protect us. They have become adversaries that make excuses for doing nothing rather than advocates for our wellbeing.

This just doesn't sound right to me. I've looked at the legislative history and at caselaw without finding an answer. Surely developments created by declarations that were recorded prior to the statutes' inception were grandfathered into the provisions of the current statutes.Surely such developments and their owners cannot be left out in the cold, denied the statutory powers and protections, and their right to the quiet use and enjoyment of their property discriminated against simply because they are old, not called by the right name initally, and were not filed under the current statutes. That simply doesn't make sense. None of the statutory provisions of the HOA or condo laws apply to us? We are outside statutory protection entirely? I see lots and lots of problems with this, mostly stemming from the fact that the board has an attorney telling them that they do not have the authority which other boards in other communities do have, simply because these statutes did not exist when the development was created. This sounds like an attorney who isn't in touch with evolving law. If nothing else, by analogy, aren't these owners entitled to the same powers and protections as other similar communities that were developed under current law? Why would the bundle of property rights be different for some property owners just because someone called them townhomes in 1983? That's an archaic mentality!

Would someone please help me to understand this, show me how to oppose it, or how to empower a complacent board that refuses to maintain/take action to preserve a dying community peopled with mostly older, single people who don' understand how much they are being shafted by an attorney and a board who refuse to change with the times and address real problems?

Thanks so much for any help that you can offer.

Lori
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Thanks for reading. I own what has been marketed since its inception in 1985 as a condo, what I am now told is a townhouse. [Lori}

Lori,

I am not in Indiana but if you allow me, perhaps I can make a couple of uneducated guesses. Townhouse development can be both a Condominium or HOA Association. It really depends on the legal ownership of the unit. If you own the unit fee-simple, you are HOA. Please check your covenants.

Ones you find out what you really own only then you can adopt state statutes. Not before. I am puzzled how you got insured and how your taxes are structured if there is no understanding what each member and the association legally own?

Yes, I do understand the ‘band-aid mentality but I also do not think it is the management company fault. I think it is the BODs decision how they want to proceed with maintenance and improvements.
LoriH6 (Indiana)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thanks for writing. Under the declaration and bylaws, I own the interior portion of my unit in fee simple. I also own an undivided co-ownership share of the common areas of the complex. In reality, I am taxed on the square footage of my unit at what is supposed to be fair market value. The common areas are not taxed to me or the other owners, which I think is strange because the decs say we are undivided "co-owners" of the common areas. Instead, as a not for profit corp., the board is exempt from paying property tax on the common areas. So that's a mish mash right there. In short, no one knows what the complex is for certain, except the attorney who says that we own our townhomes (that we think are condos) in fee simple, and the not for profit board governs the common areas, which I co-own, but don't pay tax on. The condominium statutes don't apply because the declaration were not filed under the (then existing) Horizontal Property statute, which morphed into the condo statute in 2009. The HOA statute does not apply because our board was formed in the 1980s, and this statute does not apply to boards formed prior to July 1999 unless the board has voted to subject themselves to this statute now. They have not, basically because they don't understand the ramifications. Thus, we are left with a board operating on declarations, bylaws, and covenants from 1983, not on any statutory authority.

As a result, we've got owners that haven't paid assessed monthly dues for a decade while the rest of us send our check every month. The attorney for the board says that if a lien isn't filed yearly, the board loses any ability to recover that amount, but worse, it has no authority to sue for it under the original declaration. This is not common knowledge, I assure you, or everyone would stop sending their monthly checks! Why pay when there is no consequence? That's just one example. The complex is deteriorating out from under us, and frankly, the vast majority of homeowners don't care or don't understand. This city has been hit terribly by the real estate market crash, perhaps not as badly as some parts of Florida, and if I thought I could sell,I certainly would. But I know that I can't. I'm only trying to preserve what property value and safety we have left, hoping (probably against hope) that the economy will turn around so I can get out of here.

In short, I don't think this situation follows any reasonable logic. If so, I can't discern it. We're a not condo, and we're totally unprotected by anything except ancient bylaws and covenants that are supposed to be enforced by a benign board that can't do much more than authorizethe painting of siding and mowing of grass. Apparently I misunderstood the relationship of the board to the management company or to its attorney. One would think that even if board members are confused and uninformed, the managment company and/or attorney would advise them on how to amend the decs and bylaws, vote to be subject to condo/HOA statutes, and take action to protect the property. No dice. I'll probably get stonewalled if I do raise suggestions, but I'd like to try.
Lori
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our state doesn't have a listing for "Patio-home" when you file for your homestead exemption. We have to list ourselves as a Condo/townhome. The terms are almost interchangeable. That may be the case with your situation too. I really don't know if there is a difference between condo/townhome besides what someone wants to call them.

A HOA is run by it's people for it's people. If you want the rules to change, then go and change them. (Unless your still development controlled). The documents will tell you how to do it. It's not an easy process and usually requires a special meeting and a majority vote between 51% to 90% +. There are ways to skip the special meeting to be able to collect votes more easily.

A HOA should have the right to sue, place a lien, and foreclose. A HOA really doesn't want to sue because it just gives the HOA a judgement not really any money. Plus the person can sell and move. A lien holds the owner to their property until they sell it. Which the advice of the HOA lawyer seems off about. It may not be practicle to place a lien on a property until it's 6 months behind. A year it's more of a foreclosure issue. HOwever, a foreclosure does the work of the bank for the most part and just stops the bleeding.

Go to your Courthouse to the Records department. See what the latest copy of your CC&R's are. They may have been updated. The power of the HOA is in the members. Your MC may just be putting bandaids on issues because they have no other resources not to. A HOA is only funded by it's members for it's members. The MC is a paid contractor of the HOA. (As is the lawyer). So a need to review the financials to get an idea of what expenses are in reality and why bandaids is the only way they can manage.

Former HOA President
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Lori,
just a few comments.

‘Under the declaration and bylaws, I own the interior portion of my unit in fee simple.’ [Lori}

Fee-simple ownership means that you own the townhouse including the exterior of the unit and the land under it. If the unit is a condominium unit you own only the air space of the unit. I am not familiar with ‘interior portion fee simple’ ownership.

'I also own an undivided co-ownership share of the common areas of the complex. The common areas are not taxed to me or the other owners, which I think is strange because the decs say we are undivided "co-owners" of the common areas. Instead, as a not for profit corp., the board is exempt from paying property tax on the common areas. So that's a mish mash right there.' [Lori]

Undivided interest in HOA or condominium means that the land is owned by the association and every unit owner has the right to use it. You most likely do not own any % of it.

'In short, no one knows what the complex is for certain, except the attorney who says that we own our townhomes (that we think are condos) in fee simple, and the not for profit board governs the common areas, which I co-own, but don't pay tax on.'[Lori]

Your attorney may be correct. He probably checked the deeds and the community plat and read the covenants. Again, you most likely do not co-own any common areas. If in doubt, take your deed and the Plat and ask another real estate attorney.

‘ The attorney for the board says that if a lien isn't filed yearly, the board loses any ability to recover that amount, but worse, it has no authority to sue for it under the original declaration.'

True. And, since one does not know what your covenants state it is difficult to determine who is responsible for exterior maintenance of your units.
Once you determine legal ownership then you can proceed with upgrading your docs.

NOTE: I know of HOAs in Florida who have not updated their docs since early 1980s. And yes, at that time hardly anyone knew what HOA really is. But it really does not matter because they know they are HOAs (because they own their units fee-simple) and when state laws prevail. As I said, once you understand your legal ownership in the community, you can amend your docs and follow the statutes applicable to you.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I really don't know if there is a difference between condo/townhome besides what someone wants to call them. [Melissa]

Unfortunately, this perception creates a lot of confusion about real estate ownership. One must distinguish between the construction layout vs legal ownership.
CharlesB17
Posts: 112
Posted:
Lori,
The bottom line is at the very minimum, you have a contract between you and the association. You have paid them, they have accepted payment for services they agreed to provide for in the contract, which is your governing documents. And within those documents, they, as well as you, have contractual obligations. The association, which you are an appendage to, is responsible for the contents of that contract. Determining which law does or does not apply, is irrelevant at this point. If the documents state the association is responsible for painting the exterior of your home, or mowing your grass, or maintaining your sidewalk, then that is what the association is responsible for.

What are you trying to get accomplished and what does your governing documents state?
Surprisingly someone has not tried to eat you on this forum for not being more actively involved in your association functions.

I suggest the following;
1) Determine your goal
2) Read the governing Documents
3) Contact your BoDs and discuss your dilemma with them
4) Post here what you are trying to accomplish with all applicable data, i.e. what your documents state.
5) Assess your assembled results and information
And then weigh your options
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
For a moment, I thought you were talking about MY community (Yikes!) but we have more units. We're a little older than yours, but we have the same problem with ancient documents (we've been trying to update our CCRs since 2006, but managed to get the Bylaws changed. After reading your statement, I'm wondering if the declaration might also need tweaking.

I suspect the developer of your community is or was the same one who built mine (the company has changed hands and its name, I think, but if its the same bunch, they built several townhouse/condo communities on the west side. Our townhouse community has also been called a condo community by various people, but our attorney told us a few years ago, we're technically a planned urban development (PUD). You can check the state statues to see what THAT means - go to accessIndiana.com, the state government website, and click on Legislature - from there look for the Indiana Code. You may have to do a few searches in the Indiana Code to find it, but be patient.

In any event, it appears your primary problems is your board and ancient documents. It may be the board doesn't quite understand what they're supposed to do or don't care. Unfortunately, if they keep getting elected, the homeowners don't understand their rights and responsibility in a HOA - and might not care, as long as their fees don't go up.

As some have already said here, something or someone will have to light a fire under the other homeowners and get a new group of people elected so your problems will be addressed. The current documents may be inadequate, but for now, that's what you'll have to work under, so if you can get a new board, insist that EVERYONE read the documents so they'll understand what they have the power to do. Based on what you've said, it looks like YOU would be a good board member - if you have the stomach for it, start talking to your neighbors.

At the same time, ask your attorney to review your documents and see what needs to be changed. Put together a special homeowner's committee to handle that task and make recommendations to the Board. Final approval of updated documents will likely require 75% of the owners to sign off on it, so they, too, need to read the documents to see what needs changing. You might also review the 2008 law and decide if you want to be governed under that - if so, ask your attorney what needs to happen (but be careful, there are portions of that law that I personally think are going to cause HOAs some big problems)

Reviewing the law and revamping your documents will take time (we've been trying since 2006), but in the meantime, the board (this one or a new one) needs to address the maintenance issues. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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