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CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I understand that our HOA must comply with the Michigan Open Meetings Act. The Open Meetings Act states that "The right of a person to attend a meeting of a public body includes the right to tape-record, to videotape, to broadcast live on radio, and to telecast live on television the proceedings of a public body at a public meeting."

Against the strong wishes of some board members, I tape record the general and board meetings because it helps me type the minutes of a meeting. Some board members are trying to make the board meeting next week a closed meeting (<< a topic for a different thread). If the meeting next week turn out to be a closed meeting, may I tape record the meeting? I cannot find an Attorney General opinion or other opinion about this. I very much would like to tape record the meeting next week.

Thank you!

HOA Secretary

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Crystal,

If by "closed meeting" you mean executive session, then you cannot make a recording. The proceedings in an executive session must be shielded from being repeated or reviewed outside the session, which is why you have an executive session in the first place.

There should be no minutes from an executive session either, so there is no need for a recording to use in creating minutes.

Any motions, and the vote on those motions, regarding issues discussed in an executive session should be made outside the executive session in open forum. You are perfectly allowed to record those votes taken in an open meeting.

CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
The excerpt below is from the Open Meetings Act, and does indicate that minutes must be taken in a closed session. I don't know the term, executive session, but I think it is synonymous with closed session.

"Explanation of Minutes of Closed Meeting:

Minutes of closed meetings must also be recorded although they are not available for public inspection and would only be
disclosed if required by a civil action. These minutes may be destroyed one year and one day after approval of the minutes of
the regular meeting at which the closed session was approved."
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Crystal -

Minutes "being recorded" is not the same as "tape recording". Minutes should be taken (e.g. recorded) and sealed until the applicable destruction data in the statute.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalK1 on 08/27/2011 1:54 PM
The excerpt below is from the Open Meetings Act...

Crystal,

Which "Open Meetings Act" are you quoting from? I think that you may find that it applies only to public agencies and not a private association such as an HOA.

What regulates conduct in an executive session will be your governing documents and any state law that refers to non-profit corporations in general.

So the provision for taking minutes and destroying them after a year may not be relevant in your situation.
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Our HOA was formed under PA 137, the Incorporation of Summer Resort Owners. The Michigan AG opined that corporations such as ours is a "public body" subject to the Open Meetings Act and FOIA.

If there is an executive session next week, I want to know if I may tape record the executive session for the purpose of typing minutes. After the minutes have been typed and approved, I would erase the tape.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalK1 on 08/27/2011 4:03 PM
Our HOA was formed under PA 137, the Incorporation of Summer Resort Owners...

Crystal,

You have a very special situation that makes your association uniquely different than most HOAs.

However, my advice about not worrying about the contents of the closed session still stands. The "closed session" specified in the Michigan Open Meeting Act is only for discussing issues. All decisions must be made in open session. (See Michigan Attorney General Opinion No. 6817, p. 190, September 14, 1994.)

This means that there will be nothing significant to record in the closed session. Most minutes don't include details of discussions anyway, and usually focus just on the decisions that were made at the meeting.

When the board votes and makes decisions it will be in open session and can be tape recorded and included in public minutes.

RebeccaK1
Posts: 9
Posted:
Let me use this example (fabricated, this has not occurred!)

Let's say I stole $10 from my HOA. The board discusses it in closed session. We then go into open session to censure me or take some other action. There is a motion. The motion is seconded. In the discussion, could a board member say, "I support censuring because the trustee stole $10."? Or would a board member be prohibited from mentioning that I stole $10 because it was discussed confidentially in the closed session?
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RebeccaK1 on 08/29/2011 10:14 AM
Let me use this example (fabricated, this has not occurred!)

Let's say I stole $10 from my HOA. The board discusses it in closed session. We then go into open session to censure me or take some other action. There is a motion. The motion is seconded. In the discussion, could a board member say, "I support censuring because the trustee stole $10."? Or would a board member be prohibited from mentioning that I stole $10 because it was discussed confidentially in the closed session?

I am not a lawyer and this site can never be relied upon for legal advice.

That being said...

The discussion in closed session could have people presenting evidence and speculating why you may have stolen $10. All that would be confidential and prohibited from disclosure. When they vote in open session for a censure, the censure motion would have to state a reason, such as "stealing $10", but would not have to divulge the deliberations that led people to believe that the charge was true. A censure shouldn't be for an unspecified act, since that would be libelous.
RebeccaK1
Posts: 9
Posted:
Lawrence, that is exactly the kind of information I am looking for.

It looks like I don't really need to worry too much about the closed session in two days, even if it contains false accusations against me by four trustees. It looks like the OMA contains a lot of common sense and some safeguards in place in case a dishonest majority tries to hide unethical behavior from the general membership.

(There are times I can't believe I have poured my heart into being a good, honest secretary, and tolerate such poor treatment by others.)

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts!
ToriD (Michigan)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Rebecca -
I've been perusing these posts for the past 2 hours and just signed on as a new member. Yours are fast becoming my favorite posts to read.
A) Because you too are in Michigan (so I look for responses that might better suit Michigan laws)
B) Because you too are a board secretary (so we face many of the same issues)
C) Because it appears your board is as obstinate and as obsesses by the titles bestowed on them as mine. (need I say more) :-)
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 08/27/2011 1:35 PM
There should be no minutes from an executive session either, so there is no need for a recording to use in creating minutes.

This is incorrect parliamentary procedure. ALL meetings, including executive sessions must have minutes. However, minutes from executive sessions are never made public and are approved only in another executive session. (Robert's Rules, pages 92-93).

If a court ever subpoenas the minutes from an executive session, you'd better have a good excuse why you don't have them.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Besides who was there and the opening and closing times of the ES meeting WHAT would be in the minutes? That board cannot pass motions in ES.

Perhaps attachments of presented material (i.e. bids, letters) or a list of those who were invited to give 'testimony'

Any motions coming out of that meeting need to be done in open session, at a regular or special called meeting.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 09/15/2011 4:48 AM
Besides who was there and the opening and closing times of the ES meeting WHAT would be in the minutes? That board cannot pass motions in ES.

Perhaps attachments of presented material (i.e. bids, letters) or a list of those who were invited to give 'testimony'

Any motions coming out of that meeting need to be done in open session, at a regular or special called meeting.


No argument there. But, minutes of executive sessions are required.

In a very recent case here a town council was found to have violated the Freedom of Information Act because topics were discussed that were not on the agenda for the executive session and individuals required to be present when those topics were discussed were not invited to the executive session and did not attend. So, a list of the individuals in attendance and the topics discussed can be very important in a legal challenge.

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