ACC committee

Started by FranD • 15 replies • 1422 views

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FranD (Georgia)
Posts: 102

Posted:

I am new on this committee. I want to follow the Covenant and many want it to continue like it has been, very casual and let them do what they want up to a point. How do I convince them to listen to me? We are headed for one mess after another because people are leaving the flags flying forever after a holiday, one is planting tomato plants in an common area off limits, one has painted shutters wrong color, garden hoses left on front porch and artificial plants on front porch... who knows what is next, gnomes? Do we go back and start sending notices to those already getting away with it or what is the procedure?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Maybe loosen up a bit...A HOA is run by it's members for it's members. That's to say that the owners create and enforce their own rules. If there are no complaints (except for yours) on a issue, then it's okay to be bit laxed on it. There's a difference between someone installing a fence in the front yard without approval/against the rules and someone leaving a flag flying too long. A fence or other structure IS indeed a violation and most would agree that it is. However, when it comes to such smaller items, it just isn't agreed on so readily.

Don't change something that has already been accepted. Change the stuff that hasn't. That's the only place your going to have any kind of success in doing....

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/25/2011 8:46 AM
Maybe loosen up a bit...A HOA is run by it's members for it's members. That's to say that the owners create and enforce their own rules. If there are no complaints (except for yours) on a issue, then it's okay to be bit laxed on it. There's a difference between someone installing a fence in the front yard without approval/against the rules and someone leaving a flag flying too long. A fence or other structure IS indeed a violation and most would agree that it is. However, when it comes to such smaller items, it just isn't agreed on so readily.

Don't change something that has already been accepted. Change the stuff that hasn't. That's the only place your going to have any kind of success in doing....

I would disagree with this...if you start selectively enforcing your covenants pandora's box is opened up and watch out. How do you measure being lax? If you can put a number on it and evenly apply that across the neighborhood then great, but I know of no such formula.

a rule on a small item is still a rule, the old adage let the small fish get away so you can catch the big one doesn't apply all the time. What is your defense in court when a homeowner says that so and so got to do this and this and that against the covenants and I decided to do this and they slam me with a fine?

FranD (Georgia)
Posts: 102

Posted:

There you go, now that is what I am talking about. Brad, I agree with you 100%. Need to find that formula and stick with what I believe to follow or else fines are given. They are still our homeowners and friends and need to explain why so you keep them your friends. But Why have a Covenant if you don't follow them. A rule is a rule. Great! This is why we are in a mess because last 5 years the Board and ACC aren't enforcing what they should. Thanks for your input.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Fran - time for a newsletter with one of the main articles listing some of those "rules" you are talking about.

Keep generic. Don't site specific instances (like the tomatoes) but rather talk about the commons area and how no plantings are allowed in that area.

Send individual letters if needed.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FranD on 08/25/2011 8:35 AM
I am new on this committee. I want to follow the Covenant and many want it to continue like it has been, very casual and let them do what they want up to a point. How do I convince them to listen to me? We are headed for one mess after another because people are leaving the flags flying forever after a holiday, one is planting tomato plants in an common area off limits, one has painted shutters wrong color, garden hoses left on front porch and artificial plants on front porch... who knows what is next, gnomes? Do we go back and start sending notices to those already getting away with it or what is the procedure?

Someone is more than just a little bit anal. Seek professional help.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 08/25/2011 2:12 PM

Someone is more than just a little bit anal. Seek professional help.

why do we have to make personal digs at folks? I don't understand that part?

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Brad,
Everyone can sometimes misunderstand the OP or misread the post and give an erroneous answer. The biggest problem is that we do not really know all the circumstances. That is the nature of these blogs. Understandable. I believe some people are really faced with serious problems and this is why they come here and ask for an opinion. But, this was more than a personal dig. I have noted that most of the nastiness is posted during or after the ‘happy hour’. Sad.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 08/25/2011 2:12 PM

Someone is more than just a little bit anal. Seek professional help.

Larry,

There is no reason to make a comment like that. Fran is just trying to do what her governing documents specify her volunteer duties and responsibilities call for. If her committee is responsible for enforcement, then they should be enforcing the guidelines. If the community doesn't want to follow a covenant then the Board should propose an amendment to the documents to remove that covenant and have the membership vote on it.

Fran,

In my opinion, approvals for design changes should be considered on the following:

1) Does the request comply with the CC&Rs
2) Does the request comply with the guidelines
3) Have similar requests been approved or disapproved in the past (past precedence)
3) Will the change impact the neighbors and have the neighbors supported or opposed the request
4) How might the change impact the development (a hard one because it's a judgment call)
5) Ties should go to the homeowner

You will not be able to properly address any violations unless the rest of the committee and the Board of Directors are also willing to address the violations. However, you can still do some things to address the issues and gather support for what you are doing.

One of the best ways to start is to organize your Associations architectural files so you know what is and isn't documented. Then identify changes that are not documented and send letters requesting a copy of the documentation from the owner. For those changes that documentation is not available and it's logical that the item would have been approved, create a memo for the file indicating that it's likely the approval was lost. For those items that were not approved and probably would not have been approved, provide a reasonable time for the member to correct.

You might even want to walk the development and identify the common violations and make recommendations to change the guidelines. As an example, my Association did this and discovered that 90% of the lots kept a garden hose hidden in the shrubbery or in a hose caddy. Our guidelines at the time considered this a violation. However, since there were so many that were doing it, the Committee made the recommendation for a new guideline to allow a garden hose, properly stowed, in the front yard/shrubs. This was adopted and the committee only had to be concerned of those who were in violation of the new guideline.

Hope this helps,

Tim

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 08/25/2011 3:10 PM
Brad,
Everyone can sometimes misunderstand the OP or misread the post and give an erroneous answer. The biggest problem is that we do not really know all the circumstances. That is the nature of these blogs. Understandable. I believe some people are really faced with serious problems and this is why they come here and ask for an opinion. But, this was more than a personal dig. I have noted that most of the nastiness is posted during or after the ‘happy hour’. Sad.

Whether the OP puts all the facts in there or just one sentence does not give anyone the right to make what are eseentially degrading comments. here is the issue, this is supposed to be a forumn for community leaders to exchange ideas...I am a board president but don't know that much. Why would I come here to get personally attacked for asking a question. For whatever reason I have seen more and more of it recently and really it is uncalled for. I think we should all follow the lead of RogerB...he is a professional and have never seen him make a personal dig at anyone.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Taliban – An organization that requires strict adherence to its rules, tolerates no dissent, and punishes those who do not conform.

HOA – An organization that requires strict adherence to its rules, tolerates no dissent, and punishes those who do not conform.

America – A country where diversity of thought, opinion, and conduct is tolerated and is often encouraged and welcomed.

LarryB13, Loyal American

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Civil - Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude: a civil reply. See Synonyms at polite.

Synonyms: polite, mannerly, civil, courteous
These adjectives mean mindful of, conforming to, or marked by good manners. Polite and mannerly imply consideration for others and the adherence to conventional social standards of good behavior: "It costs nothing to be polite" (Winston S. Churchill).

FranD (Georgia)
Posts: 102

Posted:

Interesting how such a question for advice from someone who has been there turns into something else. Some shouldn't be on a committee if they respond like they do.

Our 1st ACC meeting with new members was last night and your comments were most helpful. We made a form for anyone to address any issues and one of the members is a contact person that you turn those forms into and get noted whether they were fixed or approved in a timely fashion. What you told me makes a lot of sense. I feel like we got a lot accomplished and were civil and spent 2 hrs discussing everything. We plan to walk the development only visually from front due to privacy and dogs in backyards of the properties. If a neighbor has an issue with their neighbors back yard then those neighbors have to fill out the form and turn it then we will talk about it and come up with a time frame. I think our community will work together but have to be patient with some. Thanks, Fran

FranD (Georgia)
Posts: 102

Posted:

You are right and we talked about a newsletter and someone is doing a generic newsletter. If something specific to one homeowner needs addressing, then we will do that. I will leave the tomato plant person alone even tho it is in the common area. I will pass along your suggestions. Thanks for all your input.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 08/25/2011 11:35 PM
Taliban – An organization that requires strict adherence to its rules, tolerates no dissent, and punishes those who do not conform.

HOA – An organization that requires strict adherence to its rules, tolerates no dissent, and punishes those who do not conform.

America – A country where diversity of thought, opinion, and conduct is tolerated and is often encouraged and welcomed.

LarryB13, Loyal American

Last I checked it wasn't a law in this country that you had to buy a home or buy a home in an HOA. And last time I checked telling someone they are anal and need to seek professional help was considered diversity of thought and encouraged. At least not in the 4 states I have lived.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Larry,
Believe or not in some ways I tend to agree with you. People objecting to a little tomato plant? Ha, no good. But the way you put out there ain't going help any. It was nasty and it was unnecessary. Besides, why do you want to fight stupidity? You know it prevails, most of the time.

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