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KcC (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hello to all,

Let me start off by stating that I know very little about HOAs, so if I say something that makes no sense, please feel free to correct me.

I am writing to this forum today to ask for some advice on the follwoing situation regarding the HOA of The Crossings at Morganton (TCAM) in Fayetteville, NC:

My husband bought a condo at TCAM in 1997 and lived there until 2002. He is in the Army so when he changed duty stations, he hired a property manager to rent the unit out with the intent that he would eventually move back there. That never happened since we got married in 2004 and have not moved back to Fayetteville. He has faithfully paid his HO dues on time, every month for the 14 years he has owned it, which are now a whopping $127 a month (that seems excessive to me, but I've never lived in a community that had an HOA, so I don't know what a reasonable fee would be).

The HOA was/is an outside company vs. elected homeowners from the TCAM community. My husband is in Fayetteville and just met with his property manager this morning to discuss evicting the current renter (has been late on rent several times and now has completely failed to pay rent for the last two months) and placing the condo for sale. The property manager informed him that the entire TCAM community is in disrepair due to mismanagement of the company that had been serving as the HOA and that the old HOA company was fired and a new one takes over September 1st. --- this whole part is confusing to me because hiring an outside company to serve as the HOA doesn't seem to make sense since the people in the company would have no vested interest in making the TCAM community a better place to live. Why should they, they don't own a condo there, so why do they care? ---

Further, because of the mismanagement of the old HOA company and the now disrepair of the grounds, the property on the outside looks bad which will make it difficult to attract a buyer and obviously devalues the property as a whole.

My husband also stated that the property manager told him that some of the other HO's have not paying their dues and that the old HOA management company didn't enforce getting the dues. It seems highly unfair to me that my husband has paid all of his dues in good faith for all of these years and now we are left holding a property that is devalued and in disrepair.

My questions to the forum are - what recourse(s) do the HO's of TCAM have on the company that was fired? Can the HO's actually band together and sue that company? Can the outgoing company be held financially liable for mismanagement of the fees paid? Would suing the outgoing company hurt the rest of the TCAM community in any way?

Maybe there is no recourse and we just have to suck up the financial losses, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask for some opinions, thoughts, and/or recommendations from members of a forum that deal with this stuff all of the time.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
To your question the fault of the mismangement actually belongs to the homeowner's. Unless I missed something there should have been a board that oversaw the management company and held them accountable when they didn't do their job. It sounds like the board finally fired the old company and hired a new one.

What recourse...unfortunately nothing simple. I think you should sell and get what you can for the property. Ultimately you do have the right to sue the HOA (other homeowners) for lack of enforcement and lack of maintenance on the property if you can prove it devalued your home. Is that a wise course of action, only you can decide that and it depends on how much energy, time and effort you want to put into it. At the end of the day suing will only cost the homeowner's more money as they pay for legal fees.
KcC (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Brad,

Thank you for your reply. That is pretty much what I figured and my husband and I are not willing to put in a lot of time and effort into suing. Since we've been renting it out for the last 10 years, we don't know who any of the board members are or what they have been doing to try to force the old company to clean up their act and the TCAM community.

Like I said, I didn't think it could hurt our situation to ask the questions, so I appreciate you taking the time provide a response and we'll most likely chalk this up as another lesson learned in the realm of homeownership!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
You owned a home for 10 years and don't know how the HOA was managed? You never looked at a financial report or newsletter?

Shame on you. You have no right to complain. (Being in the service is no excuse, in fact the military emphazizes the importance of taking care of all business dealings, whereever you are deployed or stationed)

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I don't see any reason to throw stones...most people don't understand that they have those rights...lesson learned, unfortunately the hard way.
KcC (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you again, Brad. I didn't ask these questions to this fourum to be judged or criticized so if you don't have anything constructive to say that aids me in better understanding HOA's then please don't reply to this posting.

If all that I need to know is what Brad has already told me, that's fine and I'm good with "learning a lesson the hard way." Lesson Learned. Moving on.

However, if anyone can help me understand why a board of directors hires an external Realty firm to run the HOA, I would appreciate it. What incentive does the Realty firm have to take care of the property if none of them are homeowners in the community? The only thing I can see is that they somehow make a profit off of the HOA - most businesses don't provide services for free.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KcC on 08/25/2011 11:14 AM
Thank you again, Brad. I didn't ask these questions to this fourum to be judged or criticized so if you don't have anything constructive to say that aids me in better understanding HOA's then please don't reply to this posting.

If all that I need to know is what Brad has already told me, that's fine and I'm good with "learning a lesson the hard way." Lesson Learned. Moving on.

However, if anyone can help me understand why a board of directors hires an external Realty firm to run the HOA, I would appreciate it. What incentive does the Realty firm have to take care of the property if none of them are homeowners in the community? The only thing I can see is that they somehow make a profit off of the HOA - most businesses don't provide services for free.


Kc,
To answer your question: It is simply because the BOD members are not paid and they may not want to give up their free time to run the association. Or, they do have the expertise to run the association. Please realize, that even many absentee owners hire a real estate agent to rent their investment property. It usually is safer because realtors can easily check the credit and background of the tenant, make sure the lease is written correctly; they can take care of all complaints and possible repairs . If you feel that the realtor mismanaged the HOA property, may be the association could first contact the broker and discuss the problem with him. If that does not work, perhaps filing a complaint with the Board of realtors could be the second step.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
KC...Petunka is right...there are many reasons why a board hires an outside management company. Maybe the community is to large for a board of 5-7 volunteers to handle, maybe there isn't the desire to deal with the issues that arise daily in HOA life, and maybe they don't want to have to tell their neighbor no on a request only to create tension in that relationship. Management companies incentive is profit, this is there job and if they do a good one they will be retained and could get other clients. If they do bad they can be fired and their reputation dies.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
Having a management company or a property manager, hired by the Directors of a condo complex, or of a fairly large housing community (PUD) is the norm. At least in Florida it is.It sounds like you think it's either a Board of members doing everything OR having a management company. It's usually both.
Even with a CAM (in FL our managers are licensed "community association managers") it is difficult to get owners to volunteer to be on the board. There is a great deal of work involved.
I think you have to realize what has happened to real estate values in the last 4 years, whether or not you believe that the management company is entirely at fault.
In central Florida, even in well-kept neighborhoods, property values have gone down 1/3 to even 1/2.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
A few extra thoughts to add to my last post. Is it possible that the property manager that your husband hired to manage your affairs picked a less than responsible individual to rent to? The easy out is to say that it is all the management company's fault in the way they manage the condo association. I am not being critical of your level of understanding........just trying to paint your problem with a broader brush.

I just read this article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/24/homeowner-association-foreclosure_n_935230.html

In a further indication of how far-reaching and deleterious the foreclosure crisis has become, homeowner groups have taken to suing banks in order to reclaim properties from delinquent homeowners, Bloomberg reports.
Across the country -- and especially in states with high foreclosure rates, like Florida, California and Nevada -- homeowner and condo associations are being forced to contend with homeowners living in properties they can't pay for, and banks that won't take action unless prompted by litigation.
Some 60 million Americans, or about one in every five, live in properties with homeowner or condo associations, according to Bloomberg.
The report underscores how deeply the foreclosure crisis has distorted American housing. In July, the number of homes entering foreclosure fell to a 44-month low, a statistic that says less about the solvency of homeowners than about the massive backlog of foreclosed properties that have yet to be processed and repossessed. In some states, it could take years or even decades to clear the docket of all the houses currently in foreclosure.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
The small fee of $127.00 a month may be why the building and grounds are in the condition they are. Some fees are close to $1,000.00 per month. I personally pay $155.68 a month and this will have to be rainsed in the near future to prevent any more deteriotion of the building and grounds.
KcC (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you all for your replies. You have helped me understand aspects of HOA's that, having never been direcly involved with them (husband already owned this property for many years before we met), I never even considered.

It sounds like an extremely challenging and sometimes thankless job to do - that is being on a BOD. Best of luck to you all!

As for the condo - I think we are just going to roll with the punches for a few more months and give the new Realty company that's been hired to manage the HOA a chance to turn things around for the better; while at the same time, get the non-paying renter evicted, make any needed repairs/updates and prepare to put it on the market to sell.

KC - in Kansas (like you, Brad! Condo is in NC)
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KcC on 08/25/2011 11:14 AM
Thank you again, Brad. I didn't ask these questions to this fourum to be judged or criticized so if you don't have anything constructive to say that aids me in better understanding HOA's then please don't reply to this posting.

If all that I need to know is what Brad has already told me, that's fine and I'm good with "learning a lesson the hard way." Lesson Learned. Moving on.

However, if anyone can help me understand why a board of directors hires an external Realty firm to run the HOA, I would appreciate it. What incentive does the Realty firm have to take care of the property if none of them are homeowners in the community? The only thing I can see is that they somehow make a profit off of the HOA - most businesses don't provide services for free.


Ask yourself this: Why did your husband hire a management company to manage the rental of his home?

I bet the answers to that question will apply to why a group of homeowners who volunteer their services as a board of directors would hire a professional management company to handle the duties of a condo association.

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