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MarkM24 (North Carolina)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Our NC 110 house community has a ARC that did not receive any application for paint change. The homeowner just started to paint his house a dark mustard color. The BOD's secretary delivered the request for approval after the fact. The vote was 2 for and 1 against. The community is split with most finding the color to be in violation. What can we do if anything?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
What's there to argue? The application did not go thru the proper channels. (there ARE clear procedures and guidelines, aren't there?)

If the ARC lets this one "slide" be prepared to never have authroity again.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM24 on 08/19/2011 5:35 AM
Our NC 110 house community has a ARC that did not receive any application for paint change. The homeowner just started to paint his house a dark mustard color. The BOD's secretary delivered the request for approval after the fact. The vote was 2 for and 1 against. The community is split with most finding the color to be in violation. What can we do if anything?

The homeowner should not have started painting the house before receiving approval. However, since the paint change request was approved (even if after the fact) it's kind of moot, isn't it?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Is "dark mustard" an approved color?

MarkM24 (North Carolina)
Posts: 8
Posted:
NO mustard color is not a approved color. All the homes are painted pastel colors,grays and soft buff or tan, and subtle blue/grays. This issue has caused quite a uproar. The Board in a 4 to 5 vote stands behind the ARC. I can see this going to court....
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 08/19/2011 5:49 AM
Is "dark mustard" an approved color?


The problem I have with the OP is that the color change was approved (2 for, 1 against). At this point, I don't think it matters that the application wasn't handled properly. It was stamped "approved." The association goofed.

"Oh, sorry, we didn't mean to do that. We take our approval back."
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Your ARC MUST follow the current guidelines no matter if the paint job is done or the cans were not opened.

The owner failed to get approval for a wrong color. What is so difficult to figure out about that?

Perhaps there WILL be a court case - but it might be from other owners who were denied permits, while this particular owner gets away with a blantant violation.

What a mess.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The only court action I see is a possible lien. The owner has to either comply willingly to the change in color or the HOA will have to re-paint the property for them. The cost of the new paint job is then charged to the owner. If they don't pay, then the HOA can lien for the paint job costs. It's up to the owner to pick up the costs of violating the rules. A risk one takes whenever not getting prior approval.

I had an owner who had a hard time selecting paint. He tried to paint the house a "Plum" color that was a bit off from our color scheme. Purple is an approved color just not the shade he was painting it. He must have tried to repaint 3 times before we finally got it right. There was more complications involved as my ex-president con-man who happens to operate his own paint business got involved....However, the owner was responsible for ALL the attempts of mis-applied paint colors. We did allow him to experiment on a wall to get the color right before we let him do the whole thing.

I wouldn't sue because that is a bad idea for the HOA and won't resolve much. It's best to go with the lien process. The house will get repainted that way and hold the owner responsible.

Former HOA President
MarkM24 (North Carolina)
Posts: 8
Posted:
vote is the wrong word. The board of directors did not vote. they expressed their approval verbaly and by email. There is a BOD meeting next week and all heck will break out. This area consists of homes in the 400,000 to 1,000,000 range and property owners are very vocal. The Owner of the house claims he did not know there were covenents that he should have followed.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM24 on 08/19/2011 5:54 AM
NO mustard color is not a approved color. All the homes are painted pastel colors,grays and soft buff or tan, and subtle blue/grays. This issue has caused quite a uproar. The Board in a 4 to 5 vote stands behind the ARC. I can see this going to court....

Mark,

You did originally use the word "vote" when referring to the board.

You say that mustard is not an approved color. Does there exist, somewhere, in writing, a list of approved colors? Does that list exist in the CCRs, rules and regulations, architectural guidelines? If so, then the ARC erred by approving the color change and the ARC approval can be reversed by the BOD on those grounds. If no such list exists, then the ARC can approve any color it wants to. Again, the BOD can reverse the ARC decision, but at this point they don't appear inclined to do that.

Suppose there is a list of approved colors and it can be shown, by pointing to something in writing, that the covenants have been violated? Whose responsibility is it to enforce the covenants? It is the Board's responsibility. And, if the Board stands behind the ARC's decision to approve the color, then what?

Melissa, who is going to order the house to be repainted and levy the costs on the homeowner or fine the homeowner for non-compliance? That's the Board's job, and if the Board upholds the ARCs (possibly wrong) decision, they're not going to do that. What do you do then?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Mark, there are several unanswered questions.
1) Did the owner submit their request and wait the required time after which the Covenants provide an unresonsive reply giving them approval to proceed?
2) If so, and if the request was submitted to the correct location, the HOA has no basis for legally requiring a change unless the owner previously was provided a copy of ARC guidelines that only specifically identified colors would be approved.
3) And if the ARC approved by 2 to 1 it is a moot point whether or not 1) and 2) apply.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 08/19/2011 9:39 AM
Mark, there are several unanswered questions.
1) Did the owner submit their request and wait the required time after which the Covenants provide an unresonsive reply giving them approval to proceed?
2) If so, and if the request was submitted to the correct location, the HOA has no basis for legally requiring a change unless the owner previously was provided a copy of ARC guidelines that only specifically identified colors would be approved.
3) And if the ARC approved by 2 to 1 it is a moot point whether or not 1) and 2) apply.

Roger,

Your point #3 is exactly what I said in my first post. Once it has been approved by the ARC, nothing else matters. It's a done deal.
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM24 on 08/19/2011 6:22 AM
vote is the wrong word. The board of directors did not vote. they expressed their approval verbaly and by email. There is a BOD meeting next week and all heck will break out. This area consists of homes in the 400,000 to 1,000,000 range and property owners are very vocal. The Owner of the house claims he did not know there were covenents that he should have followed.

Mark: You say the owner did not know there were covenants. I think your Architectural Committee is completely incompetent, and should be dismissed.

JIm
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Roger and Bruce,

Go back and reread the original posting. The ARC voted against the color change. The Request for approval didn't get to the ARC until after the homeowner started painting.

Mark,

A couple of questions on the approval process.

1. How long did the Association (Secretary, manager or otherwise) have the request before the decision by the ARC?

2. Is there anything in your governing documents specifying an automatic approval if no answer is received within x days of submitting?

We have had similar experiences within my Association. One person entered into an agreement that the house would be returned to the approved color at the next painting or prior to the home being sold - which ever came first. Another person was offered a similar deal but refused and was taken to court and forced to repaint.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/19/2011 3:35 PM
Roger and Bruce,

Go back and reread the original posting. The ARC voted against the color change. The Request for approval didn't get to the ARC until after the homeowner started painting.

Tim,

I think you need to go back and re-read the OP. I did, several times.

What does 2 for the change and 1 against the change mean? I believe it means the change was approved, 2 to 1. What is your logic for the opposite conclusion?

As I stated earlier, it doesn't matter if the change was approved later or not. The argument is if they approved it after painting was started, they would also have approved it before the painting was started.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bruce,

Your right, I was the one who needed to re-read the post. Thank you for pointing that out.

This makes the issue simple as you and Roger pointed out. The color was approved.

Tim
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Tim,
I have no doubt you are a sweetheart. I do mean it. But sometimes, in this chaos, when one tries to answer too many messages one makes mistakes. I have noticed just too many too many erroneous opinions on this site. Quality may be better than quantity..you cannot cover the whole country.. but we love you the same, because we now you mean well..
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Petunka, Tim,

MarkM24 (North Carolina)
Posts: 8
Posted:
To All...The house was begining to be painted Aug. 4. The application for approval of color change was signed and distributed by email to the 3 ARC members. late in the day of Aug 4th. Voting for the Pumpkin color change were 2 board members. and voting against the color was 1 member. The board got involved because the ARC voted with urgency after the painting was underway, The Homeowner claims he did not know there were covenents. We have just gone through a 2 year court battle with a fence dispute that cost thousands (we won) and I can see this going to court also. Hope this sheds more light on this. Many people are of the conclusion we are screwed....A board meeting is next week and we have lots of letters from irate homeowners that just want to vent and I will be meeting with the attorneys Monday. If we let this ruling stand we open ourselves many more infractions.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Mark, the Board could approach the homeowner with an offer to pay for repainting an approved color. This could be less costly than legal costs. With the ARC approval date you stated if I were the owner and you took me to court I would file (and expect to) to have my legal expenses paid by the HOA.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 08/20/2011 7:58 AM
Mark, the Board could approach the homeowner with an offer to pay for repainting an approved color. This could be less costly than legal costs. With the ARC approval date you stated if I were the owner and you took me to court I would file (and expect to) to have my legal expenses paid by the HOA.

I agree. That's probably the simplest and least costly way out of this mess, especially since the ARC approved a wrong color in the first place. Repainting the house would probably cost a couple grand, whereas legal costs could quickly exceed that amount just for the initial filings.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I agree entirely with Roger & Bruce! Get board approval to spend the funds to paint it an approved color. It is well worth it. Then, move on!
GailH4 (Texas)
Posts: 2
Posted:
they all say that! If I have heard that once, I have heard that a million times in my career! lol
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
ARC approved, end of story...they should have done nothing and then could have fallen back on the premise that the owner did not submit a request.

If the HOA takes this one to court they are fools...admit defeat, work towards a solution and get a different ARC committee
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM24 on 08/19/2011 5:54 AM
All the homes are painted pastel colors,grays and soft buff or tan, and subtle blue/grays.

How boring! Your suicide rate must be off the chart.

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