Homeowners yelling profanity at Board

Started by JudieA1 • 30 replies • 4094 views

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JudieA1 (Washington)
Posts: 28

Posted:

Can a homeowner be written up for yelling profanity at a Board member? He yelled at her in the parking lot because the contractor had to postpone coming to his house. Then when I saw him outside, I asked him to please be a bit more calm when he talked with the Board (I'm another Board member) and control his anger. I told him we are just volunteers and really don't deserve to be yelled at over something that was not in our control. Then he shoved his finger 1/2 inch from my face and started yelling at me. I told him to back off and he wouldn't so I yelled back. I know, not good, but he really ticked me off. He's huge and I'm a 5 foot ol' lady and didn't feel like taking it.

HoaC (Florida)
Posts: 95

Posted:

I doubt there is anything in your bylaws or covenants that prohibit profanity being spoken or for someone speaking harshly to a board member.
But, not only is it immature, it sets the stage for other members to use the same tactics and this will lead to others mimicking this behavior.
I would suggest that at the least document his behavior in his / her file for future reference. And if this individual continues this behavior, advise him the board will seek remedy to prevent this from continuing.
Remedy could eventually require a court order directing him to not to attend the meetings based upon the BODs fear of his potential violent behavior.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

There's a fine line between being a member of a HOA (including board) and being a person. Bad behavior that gets physical or threatening is POLICE business. Even at my workplace, a person's behavior can be subject to the police being called. Why not a HOA?

I've been physically attacked by a member before over an HOA issue. I called the police and made a report. You don't have to press charges but should atleast get a report for future record. Your HOA can also recall this person for their behavior. Another consideration.

Former HOA President

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

I would be worried about this member. If this is his normal behavior I would be worried enough to seek legal guidance. Several years ago an HOA in the Phoenix area had a member who repeatedly expressed his outrage to the board about landscaping. It was irrational but no one did anything to control him. Then he showed up at a BOD meeting armed to the teeth and killed several people before he was subdued. The courts found him not mentally competent to stand trial.

I no longer dismiss irrational people as harmless.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

This outburst and verbal abuse should be noted in Executive Session, just for the record. Send the minutes to your lawyer.

If ANYTHING happns again, you will have a written history. I agree, watch this very carefully. Bully's want control and when they don't get it the action escalates.

JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 08/16/2011 3:09 AM
I would be worried about this member. If this is his normal behavior I would be worried enough to seek legal guidance. Several years ago an HOA in the Phoenix area had a member who repeatedly expressed his outrage to the board about landscaping. It was irrational but no one did anything to control him. Then he showed up at a BOD meeting armed to the teeth and killed several people before he was subdued. The courts found him not mentally competent to stand trial.

I no longer dismiss irrational people as harmless.

While I take your point that it's not good to just ignore irate and irrational people, this is an extreme and uncommon situation.

I'm not making light of it, it's an awful story for all involved, but it's also not like the guy just complained a lot and then became violent out of the blue. This man had a history of violent acts and threats and had lost his home.

He was convicted and sentenced to death, according to the information that I found.

Caution is absolutely needed, but just because someone gets angry and curses at a BOD meeting it doesn't necessarily follow that they'll be violent.

To Judie, here are some articles with tips on dealing with irate people that might help keep things from escalating in the future:

http://thinksimplenow.com/happiness/dealing-with-difficult-people

http://www.policeone.com/health-fitness/articles/79599-Angry-People-How-to-cope-with-them-and-smile

JudieA1 (Washington)
Posts: 28

Posted:

Thanks so much for all who replied. I feel so much better. Honestly, I thought you'd all be mad at me for finally yelling back. I did know better, but he got the best of me. It won't happen again. This particular man has a violent temper. He lives alone, but randomly starts screaming profanity in his home. You never know what you're going to get with him. One day he's nice to you and talks your ear off, the next day he won't even respond to your hello. I thought all of your advice was great. If he starts yelling at the Board members (me and the other lady he yelled at), we'll call the police. I'll also look at those sites you posted for me. Thanks. I don't think he'll shoot us, but he definitely has an anger problem.

Thanks again.
Judie

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Judie,

We would NEVER yell back at you. Being just a little squirt, I admire your courage to face a big bully. But in retrospect, that could have turned out badly so you will need to handle him from now on thru paperwork to begin with. Make sure the Board has documentation of all of his confrontations. If at any time he crosses the line with more than a yell, it may be time to call some authority like the police. Touching should never be allowed. Make sure that you keep a paper trail of his behavior.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I understand it's hard to call the police and get them involved. However, there a point where it has to be done whether or not the police do anything. You just need the paperwork on record so that if things escalate you have a resource/trail to bring the court. You will need these reports for filing restraining orders or other legal issues you may face.

I was in an abusive relationship for years with someone. Calling the police seemed very futile (and it was at the time). Now that I a finally free of that person and realize what I had been through, calling the police much earlier would have helped. It was just intimidation and insecurity on the other person's part. You can still have a heart but you also need to make sure you protect that heart...

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

I probably take a different approach than most, but also have the luxury of being physically bigger than most. My wife often comments that I am intimidating to approach and perhaps it serves me well in these situations.

I often subscribe to the theory of once being an accident and twice is a trend. People feel different things at different times and who all know what else was going on in his life? This could have been the straw that broke his back. I am not defending him nor condoning his behavior. I would do as others have said, document his behavior and if it happens again alert and involve the police.

HoaC (Florida)
Posts: 95

Posted:

Freedom of speech is only free if you pay for it!. Freedom is purchased with blood of soldiers.
You can yell, scream profanities and asolutely do anything like if you are willing to pay the price for your actions.
Rob a bank and go to prison. Run naked through the park and go to jail
Yell and scream at a Board member and pay with judgements, CC&R violations, being denied of expections and on and on. Get the point?
I once skinned a catfish hanging from a nail and the next time, I skinned him using a fillet board.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

i would doubt that any CC&R's talk about a member's tone of voice and use of language...it comes down to civility.

JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282

Posted:

Being a member of the board does not exempt you as a resident of the community from being confronted "outside" a meeting of the board. If this person shows you disrespect during a board meeting, they are out of order, and can be asked to leave.
If you are on the parking lot, (as you say) outside your home, or anywhere else you are not afforded special dispensation just because you are a member of the board.
You, he, and everyone else pays the same amount in assesement fees, and are recognized as simply homeowners.
It is a he say's she say's if it is not being recorded as part of a board meeting.

It is however rude on his part.

Jim

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Judie:

I agree with many of the suggestions that have been offered to you.

IMO it is not required that you allow yourself or anyone else to be abused while serving on the Board.Or in your everyday life.

This man seems to lack control, has issues that might require some modification, and might not have the tools to discuss and exchange with people. Or he might just be a bully.

My suggestion would be if and when this behavior occurs again you call the police ASAP and file a complaint. You teach people how to treat you and if his last outburst was permitted without any consequence he might feel comfortable acting again in a similar manner.

You need to explain to him clearly through your response, not words, his behavior will not be tolerated. When the police arrive it will tell him this type of behavior will never be accepted.

You cannot yell and scream at someone causing them to be in fear for their safety. To violate the law does not require the person touch you or anyone else.

As to his behavior at meetings we issued a rule that anyone disrupting either our monthly or annual meeting will be subjected to immediate fines of $100.

We also added a rule that if and when the police are called to our property as a result of your actions or behavior there will be a $100 fine accessed. No warnings or do overs.

In life some people only understand when you push back. If not they will keep acting in a rude and unaccepatable manner or worse. That's one of the functions of the police.

Not your job.

Good luck

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

JohnD,

the biggest screamer in one of the associations I came across was in fact an ex-policeman from NYC. He was otherwise harmless but his temper was out of control most of the time. Unbearable. Go figure.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 08/16/2011 5:41 PM
JohnD,

the biggest screamer in one of the associations I came across was in fact an ex-policeman from NYC. He was otherwise harmless but his temper was out of control most of the time. Unbearable. Go figure.

Maybe that's why he was an EX-policeman.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Died of a heart attack.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 08/16/2011 6:10 PM
Died of a heart attack.

Problem solved...............

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 08/16/2011 6:10 PM
Died of a heart attack.

While screaming?

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Can a homeowner be written up for yelling profanity at a Board member?

Written up? This isn't a company your working for and you can tell your boss to write someone up, this is real life and it doesn't work that way.

If you truly feel threatened, file a police report and get a restraining order against him.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Screaming because he was from New York. In Florida, all ex New Yorkers scream, and drive like they never passed their learners test.

A bumper sticker from the 2000 elections (remember the "hanging chads on ballots?)

""IF YOU THINK THAT WE CAN'T DRIVE, YOU SHOULD SEE US VOTE""

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Donna Donna Donna...........

Even people from NY have feelings.

And you can't lump all New Yorkers together because you met one potato head.

Not that is serves as an excuse but I commuted into NYC during the day for 30+ years that will result in your driving being lets say a lttle erratic. If you don't drive in a similar manner they will eat your lunch morning noon and night.

I dare you to drive the West Side Highway on a Friday afternoon around 4:30 in the Summer.
You will never be the same!

These people are a little stressed!

I gave that up 8 years ago and never missed that commute.

So please take it easy on us. I passed my test and it only took 12 times............

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Jon, Jon, Jon,

I looked for your reply all afternoon, wondering if you would lash me. Nah, you are one of the gooduns from NYC. The 7 years that I lived in South Florida, (Boca, Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale) taught me not to park anywhere near a N.Y. tagged car. Thanks for not giving me a whoopin.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Donna not to suggest older folks lack driving skills. But by then time most of the New Yorkers make it down to Florida they are up in age and their best days behind the wheel are behind them.

We like to ship them all south to cause havoc.

You know how us Yankees are......

In NY courts when we get folks who lack the necessary skills they are given a choice either give up their license or move to Florida. Most move.

Sorry about that. Bad drivers and people with tempers we all send them south.

Regards

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Speaking of driving, I drove all over the country and found the Maryland drivers the most reckless. Floridians come close second. And those in Rome and Paris I will not comment on. BUT, this off the subject. Sorry about that. Sometimes I just can't resist.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Jon,

"Sorry about that. Bad drivers and people with tempers we all send them south."

And this is why I now live in the hills of Tennessee.

To respect the O.P. no one has a right to yell in anyone elses face no matter what, especially in a HOA situation. People are just so angry and it becomes an infection on others when they try to talk to a raging peson. Best to turn and walk away.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PetunkaM on 08/17/2011 3:52 PM
Speaking of driving, I drove all over the country and found the Maryland drivers the most reckless. Floridians come close second. And those in Rome and Paris I will not comment on. BUT, this off the subject. Sorry about that. Sometimes I just can't resist.

Have you been through NJ???

Common knowledge they are the worst without a doubt.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 08/17/2011 4:15 PM

Jon,

"Sorry about that. Bad drivers and people with tempers we all send them south."

And this is why I now live in the hills of Tennessee.

To respect the O.P. no one has a right to yell in anyone elses face no matter what, especially in a HOA situation. People are just so angry and it becomes an infection on others when they try to talk to a raging peson. Best to turn and walk away.

Do they even have cars down there?????????

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Nope, no cars. Just some old V.W. buses with meth labs inside.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 08/17/2011 5:01 PM

Have you been through NJ???

Common knowledge they are the worst without a doubt.

Ever been on the Southeast Expressway in Boston?

JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceF1 on 08/18/2011 4:44 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 08/17/2011 5:01 PM

Have you been through NJ???

Common knowledge they are the worst without a doubt.

Ever been on the Southeast Expressway in Boston?

Maryland drivers find the Floridians, kicked out of N.Y., and are heading back for visits and are coming through our state to be the slowest, left lane drivers in the country. Pennsylvanians, also have a love for the left lane.
Marylanders have somewhere to go, and if any of the out of staters get in our way, you should pull over to the slow lanes, and let us pass.

Jim

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