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JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Our HOA is made up of 130 total units, still in middle of development. The developer has left and deeded the bank his lots, so they now have 68 out of 130 votes and our newly formed HOA have held elections, prepared budgets and our first fees are due on January 10, 2007.

The local lender is refusing to pay and wants a discount, our board has met with the lender and tried to work things out, however they are being unreasonable and have threatened to remove the board and replace our current seven person board with their votes. It would take 2/3 of the 130 votes and our board really doesn't think they can get the extra votes but regardless, our only action after the 25th if they don't pay is to put liens on their lots.

Our development also calls for the developer to give us the clubhouse, pool, exercise room, tennis court, and roads. The lender let the developer give us the tennis court and roads and common areas but not the clubhouse, pool and exercise room. We have retained an attorney however it will be a long an drawn out process and we are just looking for ideas to arrive at a better, quicker decision. The lender has agreed to sell the HOA all the property for what they took the property for, however our HOA is not ready or willing to become the developer and assume all the debt.

Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
We are located in Kentucky so the Uniform Common Ownership Laws are not in effect, I've already forwarded those to our government officials so that the next community doesn't have our problems

Thanks again
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Joe, I would study the Declaration and the approved planning commission documents carefully and hire a very experienced good HOA attorney. Appears this will be a long drawn out process to resolve.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
i am with roger, i don't see an easy way out. the bank doesn't want to spend money on the lots, since they basically took them back in foreclosure. Check your by-laws carefully, to see what rules apply to the bank (perhaps they are a different class of owner, with different voting rights/numbers, or different assessments). then walk carefully, you are in a mine field. sorry.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Joe:

I would have to agree with the opinions on here. Find a good attorney, study your documents and prepare for a good battle. My question would be since the bank basically repoed the property are they considered regular property owners or do they get the perks that a developer has? A good attorney can sort through all that.

The other thing you need to do is inform your homeowners about what is going on, keep them abreast and involved. Good luck.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
brad, it all depends on if the original owner transfered the declarancy with the property, or not. there's another thread here just like that, where an owner sold the property to a second party, and transfered the declarancy with it, so the second party retained the rights of the developer (assessment, voting, etc.). That issue will be one of the first sticky wickets to get through.

JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
If the lender had of foreclosed it would be much easier, but they took deed to all the lots which in turn makes them owners, if they assume the declarants role they wouldn't let the developer turn over part of the promises that he made, ie the tennis courts and roads but not the clubhouse, pool and exercise room. They simply don't want to be an owner, and I don't blame them yet they don't want to assume the declarants role that they basically took over.

The owners all have been kept up with what is going on however our meetings have become intense due to the fact that the lender always attends and voices their opinions on the matter in what usually is a stretch of the truth to say the least. Our board has been in this battle since last May and was not officially elected until September, so to say the least we have all become a little tired of the battle yet we will not stop until someone delivers what has been promised for over four years to which the lender has been involved the entire time.

Thanks for the comments so far they all help.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
on the plus side, it would be really cool to file a lien on a bank... charge them late fees, interest, file the lien, and mess up their credit history...

It's like a gazelle suddenly eating a lion...
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Negotiate with the bank, tell them if they give you 3% interest on all your mortgages then they win!

in all seriousness, stick to your guns, eventually it will work out.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
The newest email we have gotten is that the bank wants to fire all the board members and elect their own. Now what do we do?????
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
the bank can't fire anyone. Boards can and must be elected. Bottom line, count up how many lots the bank owns, multiply that times the number of votes per lot, and then compare that to how many owners you can get to any meeting, and see... can they take control?

This is where it is VERY important to know what class membership the bank actually has: Class A (1 vote per lot) or Class B (multiple votes per lot). If they are class A, good for you. If they are class B, they will likely win.

Even if the bank is Class A and wins, remember that the "BANK" cannot be the entire board, nor can they "appoint" people, unless they are legally a declarant (class A is not a declarant)... Officers must be owners (or declarant appointed), so the best the bank can do is elect 1 member to a board, unless they sell the lots to individual bank employees. and if they do that, then you win, because it puts the lots in individual owners hands, and you can charge them the back dues, fees, fines, and assessments.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
130 total lots/townhomes, bank owns 64 lots and 4 townhomes....our bylaws does not call for class a and b lots, thats where the problem comes in, I'm sure they don't know they can only elect one person, I think their going to run their own seven, we will have to wait and see, its all just emails and rumors right now.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
They have enough to vote in people for any open spots and for anything that requires a simple majority to do but not enough to amend the CC&R's. Do your documents require that a Board member live in your community or simply be the owner or agent of an owner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
do your bylaws require board members to be owners? to be members in good standing? if so, then the bank is hosed. they may have tons of votes, but they are only 1 member.

secondly, and i would keep this ace close, and only play at the meeting, our by-laws state that only members in good standing can vote. thus, if the bank is late in paying assessments, has fines, or owes dues, then none of their votes count...

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Joe:

Sounds like your documents are the key to victory, since there is only one class of membership. Since it was still in development stage I doubt there is a requirement that says a board member must live there. However, I would be the farm that it requires members to be in good standing to be board members and to vote.

In the meantime I would continue to send to them a notice of dues and follow your collection procedures should they not pay them. Really from viewpoint the bank sounds like it is just trying to strongarm you and thinks you will just fold. You would think they would be smart enough to know that they don't have a leg to stand on.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Note carefully what Brad says, it is very important... odds are the bank will try to twist this and use it against you.

a board member does not (necessarily) have to live in the community they serve. However, a board member must OWN (and be a member in good standing, paid up, etc.) property in the community to be on the board (and often, to even VOTE).

that means the bank cannot send two tellers, a VP, and the branch manager to be elected, and say "hey, your rules say they don't have to live there..."

Unless those individuals have their names on the deeds, they cannot be elected. And, unless the bank pays the back dues it owes, it may not even have any votes to cast anyway.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
I agree that they can't replace the entire board and have spoken to their attorney who is also a owner of two townhomes, he asked if I had seen some type of letter that was suppose to get to the board members that has never arrived for a meeting one day before the dues are to be paid. I informed him of the bylaw wording on how special meetings are to be called and delayed the whole process, however I'll have to check the bylaws to see if after they don't pay if they can use their votes. Thanks for all the input, I'll keep you informed.

Thanks again, all input really does help.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
After reviewing the bylaws, a owner that has more than one lot can have a representative for each lot on the board, so now if the lender gets their way they will have 4 out of the 7 people on the board, 3 are elected by the townhome owners. Anyone have any new ideas, because if they get control of the board it will stop all progress we've made during the last year after the developer had disappeared for three.

Thanks
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Joe:

What does it say about being delinquent on dues? Again, if they haven't paid in most associations your vote doesn't count and you can't be a board member.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Great point Brad except that our first set monthly fee is due the 10th of Janurary, so until the 25th, everyone is playing on the same field and they want to stop all the progress unless we let them ride for free, well they did offer 215 per month, but that is about 3.16 per lot and not enough to take care of the common property, muchless what we've been taking care of.

Thanks

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Joe:

You really need a good attorney. It is easy for me and all of us to say this is how it should be. The bank will stop screwing around once you have a good attorney on hand that can argue for you.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Our attorney is trying to work with them, the problem is, there are no good association attorneys in our state that I know of, and if they are, prior to our first months fees that are starting to be collected, we don't have any money yet to hire one, we have sit aside 25k in the budget for legal fees, but now I wish it had been more.

Thanks again for your input
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
There may be a couple of more cards to play. Even if they were to take control of the board, they would still be responsible for paying the full assessment on the lots owned. If they failed to, and as board members they failed to take actions to protect the association, they could face a "breach of fiduciary responsibility" lawsuit; if they cut themselves a special deal, they could face "conflict of interest" charges. If they fail in any way to maintain the common areas, they will have more problems. If they deposit the asociation funds in their bank, it's a conflict of interest. They would be opening a huge can of worms by taking control of the association board.

Do they really want this, with all of the attendant publicity, that the owners would surely create? There would be no way the bank would come out of this looking anything other than a bully.

Any owner can sue to force the board the enforce the documents, or for breaching corporate laws.

A few owners and your attorney might just want to mention this to them in passing.

Good luck

Joe

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JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Thanks I'll make sure that our attorney gets the info.

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