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CarolT3 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We have a 7-unit condo building, self managed, and one of the owners is disabled. He has requested the HOA to install handrails in the courtyard-walkway to his unit on the bottom floor. He tells us the HOA is required to do so. If the HOA does not apply to his request he will sue the HOA. I have asked him to provide the HOA with the necessary information from his ADA resources, but to no availability. I understand the ADA has guidelines and laws to protect the disable, But Im concerned where the Association stands with this request and if we are responsible to do so.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Carol,

The attached document may provide some guidance regarding the issue.

My take on this is that if he was requesting to make modifications to his unit at his expense, then the HOA can (and perhaps should) grant permission. However, I don't see where the HOA can be forced to make modifications to common property at the HOAs expense, especially if there are other alternatives.

1. Are handrails absolutely necessary? Can the person use the walkway to reach his unit with the assistance of a cane, walker, or rollator? If so, then I don't think a case could be made for handrails.

2. If the association does not object to the installation of handrails, they could offer to install them at the disabled person's expense. I don't believe the ADA requires installation to be at the HOA's expense.

Read the attached document.

And by the way, I am very sensitive to issues of the disabled. My wife is disabled and walks with the assistance of a rollator, and sometimes uses a wheelchair. We also have a ramp in our garage for her use.
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📄187243786371.pdf(131 KB)
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
You know, Carol, I also view this request to be rather unusual. Perhaps, if there is a steep hill on your property or some obstacle that would not be safe to walk by I’d understand. As you can imagine, Florida has many seniors and many use walkers or wheel chairs but I do not think I have seen outside handrails in any community. Even the assisted living homes in Florida do not have handrails along the walking paths in their garden areas. But again, California laws may differ.
CarolT3 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Hi Bruce,

I believe the homeowner has cerebral palsy. Our disabled owner has lived in the complex for 25 years and has been here the longest. The other owners are also long term and have been here 20,15,10,4 years and we are all sensitive to each other needs, like I mention we are a small complex.
The disabled owner can reach his unit with assistance of a walker and wheelchair and does have them and occasionally he will use them, majority of the time he does not,and he has told us he feels unsafe walking. Recently he has requested the HOA to put handrails in pathway of the courtyard at the HOA expense. If this is an expense of the HOA we gladly will have them installed, if not, we would still grant permission to do so at his expense and for the handrails to meet ADA requirements. I appreciate your input especially from someone that is familiar with the disable.
thanks
carol
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Carol,

Another issue that just came to mind is that of liability. If this person believes he needs handrails to prevent him from falling, and if he does fall, he might try to accuse the HOA of negligence for failing to install handrails.

Again, if his problem can be solved in another way, eg. walker or rollator, then that becomes his responsibility. If stairs are involved, then that's another matter.

Maybe you can get some advice from a physical or occupational therapist. They often make recommendations as to what is needed for the safety of disabled individuals and the items that would enable them to get around.
CarolT3 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
yes, we were also concerned about HOA liability.
I
Does one that is disable have a social worker that reviews his situation and assist in areas of his needs?

I wrote you a reply on the first message you put out, But this is my first time on a forum that I did not click the reply button, I think I put itit as a new message.
CarolT3 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
thanks for adding the attachment, very informative
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Carol and Bruce,

I have some questions about installing handrails in the courtyard. Are there handrails in open parks, in the Malls, along streets, in Botanical gardens? Should I go on? The HOA cannot and should not install handrails, with or without assistance from the owner. Common areas cannot become railed for this one person.

If he feels a safety issue or fears falling, then he just should not go there. My gosh, there has to be a limit to where we rails are hanging. And when he passes on and no one wants or needs the rails, then the association has to remove them? If there is danger of falling off of something, then yes, railings are called for the safety of everyone but because he has fear of falling because of his own medical issues, then no, no railings.
JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 08/07/2011 4:49 PM

Carol and Bruce,

I have some questions about installing handrails in the courtyard. Are there handrails in open parks, in the Malls, along streets, in Botanical gardens? Should I go on? The HOA cannot and should not install handrails, with or without assistance from the owner. Common areas cannot become railed for this one person.

If he feels a safety issue or fears falling, then he just should not go there. My gosh, there has to be a limit to where we rails are hanging. And when he passes on and no one wants or needs the rails, then the association has to remove them? If there is danger of falling off of something, then yes, railings are called for the safety of everyone but because he has fear of falling because of his own medical issues, then no, no railings.

This is an excellent point. Based on the information we have here, it sounds to me like this individual probably should be using an assistance device of some kind (cane, walker, etc) and just doesn't want to.

While I understand how hard that must be, to admit that one can't walk on their own unassisted, I agree with Donna that it's not the associations responsibility to add railings if there are no stairs or steep slopes present.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Did anyone bother to read the attached document from the US Dept of Justice and the Dept of Housing and Urban Development? Answers to the OP's questions are on page 3.

A homeowner's association must make a reasonable accomodation, which includes "altering a walkway to provide access to a public or common use area."

"The Act makes it unlawful for a housing provider or homeowners’ association to refuse to allow a reasonable modification to the premises when such a modification may be necessary to afford persons with disabilities full enjoyment of the premises."

Who pays? "The Fair Housing Act provides that while the housing provider must permit the modification, the tenant is responsible for paying the cost of the modification."

Who is disabled? Among others, a person with "cerebral palsy."

So, what's the problem? A member with cerebral palsy wants a handrail to be able to negotiate a walkway. The HOA can either allow the handrail at the member's expense or face civil prosecution. This one is a no-brainer.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 08/07/2011 4:49 PM
Are there handrails in open parks, in the Malls, along streets, in Botanical gardens?

Donna, Jennifer,

Who lives in an open park? In a Mall? On the street? In a botanical garden?

We're not talking about such places. As you say, if one does not feel safe walking there, don't go there.

OK, so when one does not feel safe walking on the walkway to one's home, then don't go home? Or, maybe don't leave home? Sorry, I cannot accept your logic on this one.

I never stated that the HOA had to install handrails. I suggested there are devices to assist individuals who have difficulty walking and are in danger of falling: canes, walkers, rollators. Those devices assist them and reduce the danger of falling while walking in open parks, malls, on streets, in botanical gardens, and yes, around the home. As I said, my wife uses a rollator to assist her in walking for precisely that reason - there is the danger she may fall if unassisted. However, I did note that if stairs were involved, that would be another matter.

I also noted that, because other devices are available to reduce the danger of falling, I didn't think a case could be made to require the installation of handrails.

But, I left the decision of whether or not to install handrails up to the HOA involved. If there was no objection to installing handrails, I noted that the the HOA was not required to pay for them. That it would be perfectly permissible, and the HOA would be compliant with the law, by requiring the disabled individual to pay for the installation. They could also share the cost, which is another solution.

As already pointed out in a previous post, the document I attached in my first post in this thread is worth reading. It's short, and contains numerous examples of the types of accomodations that an HOA could be required to make.

And by the way, I have seen handrails along the walkways in some open parks.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
There was a case a couple of years ago where the HUD was going after a HOA that denied handrails. As Larry pointed out the HOA doesn't have to pay for them. I would suggest the OP's Board contact the HOA's attorney to find out just what their options are.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bruce,

I think that the point that I am trying to make is that sometimes--SOMETIMES, a handicapped person needs to realize that perhaps they may not have access to every place in the world. I am not anti diasbled not against the ADA stuff or anywhere else that some might think this post was headed for. I am saying that does the entire world have to accomodate access to the disabled just because they want to go there? Does no one ever consider that maybe it is not safe and reasonable to attemt to go to a place that is not railed? A partner, a service dog or whatever means that they need to be out and about?, Yes, that works for me but I think that we have overused some of the requests to accomodate access for handicapped. I am going to get chewed up for this but I look at things from a black and white perspective and if I am going to be out and about, I do it within my limitations.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 08/08/2011 9:41 AM

Bruce,

I think that the point that I am trying to make is that sometimes--SOMETIMES, a handicapped person needs to realize that perhaps they may not have access to every place in the world. I am not anti diasbled not against the ADA stuff or anywhere else that some might think this post was headed for. I am saying that does the entire world have to accomodate access to the disabled just because they want to go there? Does no one ever consider that maybe it is not safe and reasonable to attemt to go to a place that is not railed? A partner, a service dog or whatever means that they need to be out and about?, Yes, that works for me but I think that we have overused some of the requests to accomodate access for handicapped. I am going to get chewed up for this but I look at things from a black and white perspective and if I am going to be out and about, I do it within my limitations.

Donna,

I still think you're missing the point. We're not talking about being out and about. I don't disagree with you on that issue. But, we're talking about access to a person's home. Are you suggesting this person live somewhere else? According to the ADA and HUD, that's unacceptable.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bruce,
Yes I was missing the point. I absorbed "Courtyard" but failed to pick up walkway to his home. He has every right to access his home and that was never my contention. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

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