Florida - cosequence for non sunshine open meetings?

Homeowners' associations are not required to comply with Florida's Government in the Sunshine Law and Public Records Law.

Yes, the Florida “sunshine law” applies only tocertain governmental agencies.

BUT, Section 720.303(2)Florida Homeowners’ Association statute includes all of the “sunshine” provisions regulating notice and meetings for HOAs. Also your documents could contain additional requirements. Many people, including Florida attorneys refer to these provisions as ‘sunshine law’. After all, this is the sunshine state.

In Florida, tt is clear from your replies that there are no consequences for violating Florida Statute on open meetings.

Can I demand a copy of emails from the management company which they have corresponding with BOD members and homeowners and vendors on behalf of the HOA? In MS Outlook, it should be an easy export (with filter options) to a .pst file.

Thank you

David,

Another bit of information, a Board may correspond on HOA matters by e-mail but they MAY NOT VOTE on any matter except at a duly called open meeting. Thinks about it. An exchange of information and to discuss matters sometimes takes way more time that a meeting would allow. Research and exchanging thoughts among the Board is certainly allowed prior to a meeting but again, votes on any matter must be done in the meeting setting.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0720/Sections/0720.303.html

If I am not mistaken, FLorida Statute 720.303(5)(c)7 seems to indicate that data is an official record although the software and the operating system is not. I assume "data" would include a .pst file of email correspondences?

This is why Florida needs to make a change to the Statute allowing for inspection of records. A Homeowner just looking should be required to apply in writing what they are looking for and need a valid reason for the request such as litigation or legal reasons for inspections.

If every request for "information" that had no real merits was charged a fee, the National debt could be paid off. We see it time and time again, that a H.O. wants to inspect records for personal reasons. As a former Board member, I must say that this is annoying, costs precious time and usually accomplishes nothing.

"Can I request that management give me a MS Outlook .pst file of all exported emails from their computer which they receive correspondences from the BOD and from homeowners? Again, I won't be asking for emails from homeowner's computers or BOD member's computers. Just the management company's received and sent emails in relation to the HOA. Am I entitled to this? "

The Statutes says that YOU can make copies but there are no requirements on how they must be transfered and the HOA sets up how, when and where you may do this.

David,

I absolutely am not upset about your requests and replies and there is no need to apologize. We are having a discussion and you need to be aware of how the other side may perceive your requests. As as former Board member and still being a homeowner in Florida, I study and know the Statutes and documents of associations and how they work.

Many people post the Statues here to validate their right to question things or to have ammunition in order to approach their Boards with requests for information. Those Statutes are guidelines for HOAs to follow, to protect the memberships and to allow the Board to govern without being constantly bombarded with doubts from the members. Mistakes are made by Boards but they also deal with mistakes from homeowners that are detrimental to the association and it's documents.

As for legal advice, our posting rules here on the site have a disclaimer about this NOT being a site for legal advice. If you are in a situation where the Board or M.C will not give you the insformation that you are seeking then you have a choice to hire a lawyer or to figure out that you may not be entitled to that information that you seek.

And you still have not said what type of information you are asking for. There is some that you may not review or request. What's the story here.

Dear PetunkaM,

Thank you for your reply. Could you please let me know what specific statute section states that all official records given to members must be convereted to paper form? I would assume that if a BOD video tapes its own annual meeting and stores it on a DVD, that DVD would be open for viewing and or copying to another DVD. Such video could not be converted to a written form.

Petunka,

You have hit the nail on the head about some of the wording in the Statutes as being ambiguous. Referring to the association documents, means looking at boilerplate documents that were taken off of an internet site by a lawyer in training or at least not HOA specialists. Very few documents are written specifically for an individual HOA.

Therefore one must rely on a propety manager to know what the laws allow for her/him to do within the association and in responding to association members.

As you spend more time on this site, you will find that anyone wishing to inspect and copy records comes up with the same questions and usually the same responses from their own HOA. This tells me that indeed there is a problem with 720:303 -5. Inspection of Records

I wonder if #7. refers to what David is asking for?
"7. The software and operating system used by the association which allows the manipulation of data, even if the owner owns a copy of the same software used by the association. The data is part of the official records of the association.

Therefore one must rely on a property manager to know what the laws allow for her/him to do within the association and in responding to association members. [Donna]

Donna,

Yes, these docs were written by lawyers and for lawyers. Personally, I would not ‘rely’ on a property manager to interpret anything. The Board should understand the docs the best they can. Also, my rule is: Let people live! If members want to see the records the BOD should not make it difficult. Perhaps, HOA should have some rules in place, in the event you have one person who demands some ‘special conditions’ or requests a copy of everything five times a week or, if your HOA is really large. Regular BOD meetings and distribution of Minutes to all members would certainly solve many problems and members would not feel left out. (BOD/MC can easily scan a signed copy of the Minutes and e-mail it, providing the members agree.)

720.303. The word ‘written’ or ‘copying’ is all over the place. In my opinion, #7 applies to data security. Many people on this forum are asking for clarification because they may not fully understand what ‘official record’ exactly means and what is excluded from the ‘right to inspect’. The word ‘confidentiality’ came up several times recently. Some believe, a member cannot not see how many owners are delinquent. That is not true in Florida. A member has every right to inspect those records. However, if the Board decides to publish a list of all delinquent owners in some newsletter, that could certainly be challenged.

Let’s flip a coin for a sec. The BOD decides to ‘beautify’ all common areas and is now spending thousands of dollars on planting trees, shrubs, new signs, etc. But, there was no BOD meeting to approve this expense ? So, Mr. Member wants to know what 'beatify' really means and who approved it and how? Would e-mails answer his questions? May be. But are e-mails an acceptable method to approve such a project?

E-mails. There could be problems. First, most board members do not set up HOA business e-mail addresses and they really should and use those only for all official correspondence. Using their personal e-mail to discuss corporate business is simply not a good idea. And, if a lot going on behind the scenes they can just hit ‘Delete’. Also e-mails may not accurately reflect or describe every situation. For instance: HOA President phones an attorney to discuss a problem. The attorney answers by e-mail. Even if that e-mail ends up in the file, you have no clue what the president’s questions really were and what the attorney's opinion really means and consequently that ‘official record’ is not very useful anyway. So, it all boils down to management skills of the BOD.

David,

You would be correct that the video would also be part of the official records. However, some Associations have policies that an audio recording or video recording is only kept until the minutes are approved, then the recording is destroyed.

As for the need to transcribe data, the Association should go on the expectation that a member does not own a copy of the parent program. Therefore, a printed copy would typically be provided.

Tim

Suzanne,
Florida Chapter 617 lists provisions that are either required or permitted by Florida state but such provisions must be included in the By-laws or Articles to be valid and enforceable. There are bunch of provision under this act. For instance, the act permits ‘ the board of directors may fix the compensation of directors’; or , ‘the board of directors may hold regular or special meetings in or out of this state’ and I can go on. Does it mean they stand?

Petunka,

Strange that a professional management company would use hotmail. If so, they can likely POP the hotmail account and get a copy of the emails into MS Outlook and then export to .pst file. There are experts who help migrate emails into any format requested. I am sure that one of them can be engaged to help the BOD / management company accomplish what they wish.