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Members in good standing

Started by TheI • 20 replies • 4269 views

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TheI (Florida)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Hi I have been reading this forum for a while and a lot of my questions have been answered. Thanks for all the great answers. I have done a search but can't find a solution to the problem I am having.
I live in a small HOA, less than 100 homes. Over the past few years it has turned into a big rental neighborhood. The best guess is about 30% to 35% rental.
Some of us think our current PM is not the best fit for our neighborhood. We have talked to the board about this but they weren't very receptive. We had a special meeting to discuss the PM but the board said "noone really attends the meetings and we don't feel like we have to give your concerns any real weight."
So yes it is true only 4 or 5 homeowners attend the meetings but we only have 2 meetings a year, the annual meeting and the budget meeting. We had 37 homeowners attend the special meeting.
Because of the large number of owners who attended the meeting I think we can get the required signatures to recall the board at which time we can elect a new board.
To recall we need to get signatures of 50%+1 of the owners in "good standing." I believe the number of members not in good standing take away from the total number signatures I would need. For example an HOA will 100 homes I would need to get 51 signatures but if 25 of the homes are not in good standing then I would only need to get 39 signatures to recall the board. If I am reading the Fl Statutes correct.

My question is can I get a membership list for the people in "good standing" with the association? and if not then how do I know if the person signing the recall is able to sign it.
I don't want to fight with the board but I also don't want signatures disqualified because the homeowner is "not in good standing."
Any help is appreciated.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Recalling the board – even for well justified reasons- can really divide a community but that is none of my concern. I am not clear about the info you need. Can you please tell:

1. Where did you read 50% +1 of the owners ‘in good standing’ is required? Chapter 720 does not seem to say that.
2. Is there a provision describing how to recall the BOD in your documents? If so, it may prevail. You should read both carefully.

As far as I know only those owners who are behind paying their regular assessments for more than 90 days cannot vote providing your documents authorize it (Chapter 720). But again, your By-laws may have other restrictions I am not aware of. The info re delinquencies is in your association records. Good luck.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

The1,

I may be wrong but when the vote is requiring 50% + 1 of members in good standing, that does not mean that you just subtract the 25 or so members who are in that catagory. They may not vote but you may not alter the original required number.

When the Articles of Inc say, you need 50% +1 to have the required number to pass an amendment or to recall, you may not just remove the 25 or so from your 100 owner numbers. It remains at 50% + 1 of the 100 homes. Nice try tho

Recalling the Board because some of you don't like the P.M is pretty harsh and an aweful lot of work to change them.

The Board said that "We had a special meeting to discuss the PM but the board said "noone really attends the meetings and we don't feel like we have to give your concerns any real weight."
So yes it is true only 4 or 5 homeowners attend the meetings .

The statement by the Board needs to be addressed as a total disregard for member concerns but they are trying to justify it by low attendance from the members.

This is telling you that you need to get organized and make the Board understand that your group has valid concerns about the P.M and that there needs to be some resolution to your concerns.

It is NOT the P.M.s fault that you have high rental numbers and if that is being put on her plate as to her being responsible for that, then that is absolutely false. Read the statistics on the Florida housing market and do not blame a single person but what has happened to the housing market in general.
BevM (Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Hi THeI Check out this website: http://www.ccfj.net/FS720.htm

My question is can I get a membership list for the people in "good standing" with the association? and if not then how do I know if the person signing the recall is able to sign it.
I don't want to fight with the board but I also don't want signatures disqualified because the homeowner is "not in good standing."
Any help is appreciated.

As a member, you are entitled to the membership list. Please see Florida Statutes Chapter 720.303:Section (4)item (g) as listed below:

(4) OFFICIAL RECORDS.--The association shall maintain each of the following items, when applicable, which constitute the official records of the association:
(g) A current roster of all members and their mailing addresses and parcel identifications.

They should be able to give you a list of all members in Good Standing too. I don't think they can't give you a list of members NOT IN GOOD STANDING. (That would not suit your purpose of communication anyway!)

It sounds like you have an understanding that there are statutes to abide by. However, the board may need some education. If the required number of members to call for a special meeting of the members has been satisfied, the board has a legal obligation to send appropriate notice to each member entitled to vote at a member ship meeting. The reason for the special called meeting has to be in the notice of the meeting. An agenda should reflect all the issues that called for the assemly of the members, so the board is held accountable to address all issues brought before the membership. ONLY the topics on the notice for the meeting and the agenda are typically opened for discussion. Nothing brought up by the members at the time of the meeting which was not in the call for the meeting or the notice of the meeting is open for a vote because not all members of the community have had a chance to hear motions, debate and the priviledge to vote at said meeting:

720.306 Meetings of members;(3) SPECIAL MEETINGS.--Special meetings must be held when called by the board of directors or, unless a different percentage is stated in the governing documents, by at least 10 percent of the total voting interests of the association. Business conducted at a special meeting is limited to the purposes described in the notice of the meeting.

TheI (Florida)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Thank you for the answers
@petunkaM - There are no provisions in our governing docs about this. Fl St 720.303(10) says the board may be recalled by the majority of the total voting interest, I just say 50%+1 and it is not just a petition it is essentially a homeowner casting a vote to recall the board and electing new ones so if they have lost their voting privileges their vote is not valid. They are "not in good standing"

@donnaS - I thought I read in the bills that just went into effect July 1, 2011 that members not in good standing do not count toward the total voting interest anymore. So in a 100 home hoa if 25 members are not in good standing then the total voting interest is now 75 homes and I would need the majority of 75 homes instead of 100. I could be wrong since Fl has not changed the statutes of the web site to 2011 yet or maybe that is just something I interpreted wrong. I don't know anymore. I will see if I can find it again.

I agree recalling the board is pretty harsh but I don't know what else to do. Two of the three board members live in the neighborhood but they won't talk to anyone anymore. They literally walk away from anyone and go in their house if that association is mentioned. The PM has told us if anyone has any questions or concerns about anything they need to send a registered letter to the office and they will get to it. So it is either wait for the next annual meeting next year or do something now before tensions get too high.

And I did not mean to insinuate that it is the PM fault that we have a lot of rentals. It is not.
AnnJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 122
Posted:
Hi TheI,

I read the following at Attys Becker and Poliokoff's website which confirms your understanding of the new statutes. The excerpt below can be found in the "2011 Legislative Guide" published by B&P.
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/articles/ca/hb_1195_20110627.pdf

Please read the last bulleted item.....

HTH,

Ann

§720.305, F.S.
• Clarifies that the Association can fine and, for a “reasonable period of time”, suspend the rights of the owner, or an owner’s tenant, guest, or invitee to use the common areas and facilities for the failure of the owner of the parcel or its occupant, licensee, or invitee to comply with the terms of the governing documents
• Continues previous limits for fines to $100 per violation and $1,000 in the aggregate, though the fine can exceed $1,000 if so provided in the governing documents
• Continues requirement that a fine of less than $1,000 cannot become a lien
• Continues proviso that association provide 14-day written notice and opportunity for hearing prior to imposition of fine or suspension for failure to comply with the terms of the governing documents
• Clarifies that the Association can suspend use rights of the owner, or an owner’s tenant, guest, or invitee if the member is more than 90 days delinquent in paying a monetary obligation due to the Association
• Removes requirement that the right to suspend voting rights of an owner if more than 90 days delinquent in paying any monetary obligation due to the Association must be in the governing documents
• Provides that the Board suspension of use rights and voting rights of an owner who is more than 90 days delinquent in paying a monetary obligation due the Association must be imposed at a duly-noticed Board meeting and the Board must thereafter provide written notice of such suspension to the owner and, if applicable, the occupant, licensee, or invitee by mail or hand delivery
• Provides that the voting interest or consent right allocated to a parcel which has been suspended is not to be counted towards the total number of voting interests necessary to constitute a quorum, the number of voting interests required to conduct an election, or the number of voting interests required to approve an action.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Ann,

Thank you for posting this. You are correct in that the State does not have it on their website yet. Interesting!
AnnJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 122
Posted:
YVW, Donna. It sure is a biggie for associations with a bunch of members who are not in good standing and quite a relief, as I see it!

Ann

PS.... I noticed last year that it took quite a few months until the new statutes were posted. Guess that's their "norm"!! Our government at work....NOT!
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
TheI:

I just questioned a couple of things:

Votes required: Majority is not the same as 50%+1. With 75 people voting you would need 38 votes to get the majority. But if you do 50%+1, yes, you would need 39 votes.

Suspension of voting rights: I still do not understand what your definition of ‘good standing’ is and how it applies to voting. You cannot suspend owner’s right to vote unless he/she is more than 90 days delinquent (it does not have to be stated in the By-laws any longer, which I did not know. Sorry.) BUT the Board must approve the suspension of voting rights of delinquent owners and notify the owners in writing. So, it is not automatic. At least this is the way I read HB 1195. I will read the bill in its entirety again tomorrow just to make sure.

‘The PM has told us if anyone has any questions or concerns about anything they need to send a registered letter to the office and they will get to it. ‘

Ha, tell the PM to show you where your documents require a registered letter to state a concern or request information. I’d keep on reading your documents and try to force the Board to follow them. There should be a requirement to have regular Board meetings to discuss the Assn business, etc. I’d do all communication with the BOD in writing or by a petition. If you decide to go for a removal, please be prepared. It could get ugly.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I would think a list of members in good standing would expose those who are not in good standing. Our HOA's property management and our collections attorney have always frowned on the potential public outing of delinquents as in poor taste and not helpful in getting cash in our hands.

That said, if there are only two meetings per year, then one of those meetings is to elect board members, right? No need to expend energy jumping through hurdles of special meeting requirements when you can use that time to organize support for new candidates - supposing you'll find people willling to walk the walk to back the disgruntled talk - and meet a lower threshold for electing new board members.

With no one attending HOA meetings, and my board meeting attendance is abysmal, it's very easy to misunderstand or not understand the HOA's actions, leading to suspicion. Property managers are especially prone to customer dissatisfaction yet I've noticed that boards will keep them around like a bad habit. But, owners renting their properties seems to be an issue among neighbors and not with the PM, who can, at best, mediate situations but the law on renting in your state trumps all of this.

I know what you mean about too many rentals. There is balance.
BevM (Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Kelly, You are exactly correct about the good standing list: process of elimination would give you a list of those not in good standing, but that is of your doing, not the associations willfully providing you a list of those not in good standing for the reasons you have stated, poor taste and it does no good .

I am assuming that your elections are done through the mail to afford everyone has a vote. If the voting is done at the meeting, not everyone would have the option of attending and voting in their representatives for the board. Is that correct? I would imagine that your state codes require you to elect board members annuallly and to have an Annual Membership Meeting. The election should only be a part of that Annual Meeting. There should be Annual reports from the board members and any committees, and just an overall summary of things that happened throughout the year, and an opportunity for the members to ask questions, or comment on the overall state of things.
As far as no one attending HOA meetings, that is no excuse for a reputable board to not make information available through Newsletters, Bulletin boards, a group e-mail list of members, or even opening a facebook page that allows member feed back and news and announcements from the board. If the members don't ask for these things than it is no wonder members are left in the dark, and yes suspicion does rise. Members need to take action if they are not happy. One reason they are not happy is that they don't take personal responsibility to find out what is going on.
What is meant by the statement, "meet a lower threshold for electing new board members." As a member of a HOA I encourage voting for excellence in your board members, not lowering the standards!

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
In lowering a threshold, I'm not referencing the quality of board candidate. In many HOA's, the act of calling a special meeting and special elections is not bureaucratically easy to organize and the standard of passing a proposal under "special" situations may be more difficult than simply attending the regular election night meeting and running for office After all, the community is expecting to vote or reappoint board members on a given "election night."

HOA's are notoriously lethargic, often by design, so simple patience and planning w/ board member recruitment in the meantime could pay better benefits.

Check your board member count to see if all the board slots are filled with members. Our HOA slots over a dozen positions but only 8 are filled. You could gain influence by joining the board on election since competitive elections may be unnecessary and you really can't vote off a board member if there are available seats.

Our HOA is divided in 4 mini-communities (we are a Master Association that oversees common property amenities), so the only rule is that no one mini-community can dominate, votewise, the master association board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here's the thing about "Good standing" reports. We called them "Collection reports". They were the report from our accountant that reported the amount of monies owed per each lot. However, this report was for BOARD MEMBERS ONLY. This was to protect the privacy of individuals and prevent vigilantism against owners who owed money. We the BOD would discuss in the meetings about which owners owed what but NEVER EVER referred to that owner by name but by LOT NUMBER instead.

This is most likely the information you are looking for when trying to find out who is in "good standing" or not. Unfornately, it may have limitations on allowing you or anybody else to view it. It will depend on how the BOD or management company feels and allows viewings of this information. Some will only let YOU see the amount YOU owe on your lot. Others may allow you a personalized onsite screening. Still others won't let you see it at all.

In our HOA, a person that is NOT in good standing may lose their ability to vote. However, it did NOT stop them from running for a position. It's just who's going to vote for somebody who's not in good standing with the HOA?

There are other avenues for you to explore to find the owners. There are tax records and the tax accessor's office. You know the address or lot number of that property in your HOA you can call to find out who owns it. Keep in mind that information isn't updated regularly and can be several months behind. You can do the old fashioned look in the phone book/internet for the addresses in your HOA. That should give you the names of the people in your HOA. It won't identify who's a renter or not. It will get you the right addresses to which to send your correspondence by mail if you so choose on your own dime.

Good luck! Hope you decide to run for a board position!
Former HOA President
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Oops, this is getting just a little too confusing. I will post ‘Suspension of Voting Rights in Florida’ as required by current law in a few minutes.
TheI (Florida)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Thanks again for all the great answers. It seems like if I had reread the statutes I would have seen where is says suspension of voting rights has to be at a board meeting, so I would know if someone has lost their voting rights.
By good standing I mean has the right to vote. That is all. I don't want to know who owes money or is in litigation with the board or who got what violation. As I am not on the board I don't feel it is my right to see that kind of information.

@annj1
Thank you I could not remember where I saw that.
@petunkam
I see where it says voting rights can be suspended but it has to be at a duly-noticed board meeting. So I guess that answers my question. We have not had any board meetings so no voting rights have been suspended in my neighborhood.
MargoT (Georgia)
Posts: 80
Posted:
MelissaP1

Our Developer requested to turn over the POA. We are preparing to elect the BOD.
Today, two members said they are running for the BOD. It is common knowledge from the Developer that one of the home owners is not current on his dues for quite some time now. The other folks running to get elected to the BOD are concerned about this. HOW can this member run if he is not current with dues. I understand after the BOD meets, they will determine among themselves who is best for each position on POA. Do we have the right to demand he must be a member in good standing to serve on the board?

We live in a Developer controlled subdivision and to date, NO bylaws have been found.
Please help.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/31/2011 8:49 AM
Here's the thing about "Good standing" reports. We called them "Collection reports". They were the report from our accountant that reported the amount of monies owed per each lot. However, this report was for BOARD MEMBERS ONLY. This was to protect the privacy of individuals and prevent vigilantism against owners who owed money. We the BOD would discuss in the meetings about which owners owed what but NEVER EVER referred to that owner by name but by LOT NUMBER instead.

If you are referring to owners by lot number you aren't protecting their identity, anyone who wants to can find out which lot is which can fairly easily.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I know that. However, by referencing them by lot number it saves embarrassment by the person who may be in the meeting. It also helps protect us legally as someone can't claim we were slandering them in front of other people. It kept the situation at a professional level if we referred to lot numbers despite everyone in the room actually knowing who owned the house etc...Some cases we didn't know who owned the lot... It's just good practice not to bring up individuals names if avoidable.
Former HOA President
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I agree 100 percent on bringing up names and I would bring it even further and not bring up lot numbers either. To me you accomplish the same by saying we have x homeowners who owe us X dollars, x amount is the highest due or just provide a list without name or lot number of the dues owed.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We have to talk Lot numbers because the discussion is between the board in an open meeting. ONLY the Board members have a copy of the collection reports and the regular members do NOT. The first part of the meeting we the board would discuss the collection report amongst eachother. This allowed the membership see OPENLY what we were doing to collect dues from those who owed. Plus it allowed us to take a vote for legal actions to be taken.

Board meetings only happen once a month and in OPEN meetings. So if we had to discuss collections we did it the best we could in an open forum without offense or hiding it from anybody.
Former HOA President

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